New Community?

[kavalamyself]

Has anybody ever heard of this community? Thanks:

[url="http://oblatesistersofmarymagdalene.net/"]http://oblatesistersofmarymagdalene.net/[/url]

[InHisLove726]

Gemma probably knows a thing or two about this charism. It says that Cloister Outreach is supporting it. That's Gemma's group.

[Gemma]

[quote name='InHisLove726' post='1945630' date='Aug 10 2009, 06:30 PM']Gemma probably knows a thing or two about this charism. It says that Cloister Outreach is supporting it. That's Gemma's group. [/quote]

Iris from Ohio is the main foundress. She and an Anglican with the help of an SD created the OSMM to combine elements of charisms like the Servants of the Sacred Cross; the secular institutes; and some eremitical. They draw their charism from that of the Good Shepherds and Magdalens.

They are considered the secular institute branch of our Good Shepherd/Magdalen Renewal.

[url="http://cloisters.tripod.com/goodshep/"]http://cloisters.tripod.com/goodshep/[/url]

[url="http://cloisters.tripod.com/magdalens/"]http://cloisters.tripod.com/magdalens/[/url]

Both might start eremitically.

They are listed as being supported by Cloister Outreach because nobody wants to realize that older women have a place in religious life. We have practical research and experience to the contrary.

Blessings,
Gemma

[tnavarro61]

this is weird. (no offense meant!) but a branch is already forming, when the main "trunk" is not yet founded?

[quote]Both [b]might start[/b] eremitically.[/quote]

[Gemma]

[quote name='tnavarro61' post='1945969' date='Aug 11 2009, 01:43 AM']this is weird. (no offense meant!) but a branch is already forming, when the main "trunk" is not yet founded?[/quote]

Inflexible, concrete thinking is not what the Spirit likes to work with when it comes to new foundations. As Fr. Groeschel said, "Does your charism look absurd? Good! The Holy Spirit loves absurd!"

Emerging charisms are founded in the founders' hearts & souls, are they not? When does one become a mother--at conception?

Branch and trunk doesn't exactly work here--they're all three contemplative, but to different extents. The original GS sisters were semi-cloistered; the Magdalens, cloistered; and we're not sure if either one had a "third order" or not.

The OSMM had their act together more quickly than the other two.

One had committed to our GS renewal some time ago, then we finally got a Magdalen aspirant. The OSMM aspirants had been corresponding with our GS aspirant, wondering if the two could possibly work together.

Then the OSMM tried to get some kind of conditional recognition, and their diocesan chancellor wouldn't even give them the time of day--apparently didn't read past the first paragraph. He referred her on to secular institutes, etc. Very frustrating. Then they were moved by the Spirit to affiliate with us for the sake of knowing how to go about making the foundation correctly, and to have the research to back the rationale for their efforts. Each charism has to arise from a need, and there is definitely need for charisms for older vocations.

With the U.S.'s troubled economic and political situations, the eremitical route is eminently more practical than trying to set up an actual convent--at least at this time. Many charisms started by the founder being a hermit at first.

HTH.

Blessings,
Gemma

[tnavarro61]

Still cannot get this one.

[quote name='Gemma' post='1946040' date='Aug 11 2009, 07:46 PM']Inflexible, concrete thinking is not what the Spirit likes to work with when it comes to new foundations. As Fr. Groeschel said, "Does your charism look absurd? Good! The Holy Spirit loves absurd!"[/quote]

--I do not question your charism. I didn't say your charism is weird.


[quote]Emerging charisms are founded in the founders' hearts & souls, are they not? When does one become a mother--at conception?[/quote]

--i cannot also understand why did you say that. you've already told me that.
When i felt I am called to, let's say, priesthood, am I already a priest?

[quote]Branch and trunk doesn't exactly work here--they're all three contemplative, but to different extents. The original GS sisters were semi-cloistered; the Magdalens, cloistered; and we're not sure if either one had a "third order" or not.[/quote]
--Maybe it's in my english that i cannot understand this.

The OSMM had their act together more quickly than the other two. I can't understand the relationship of branch-and-trunk "analogy" to the lifestyle of the members.


[quote]Then the OSMM tried to get some kind of conditional recognition, and their diocesan chancellor wouldn't even give them the time of day[/quote]
--What could be the reason? Is he too busy to even glance at special vocations, or something else?

[quote]Each charism has to arise from a need, and there is definitely need for charisms for older vocations.[/quote]
--Yes I agree with this one. There's a need and many has responded.

[quote]With the U.S.'s troubled economic and political situations, the eremitical route is eminently more practical than trying to set up an actual convent--at least at this time. Many charisms started by the founder being a hermit at first.[/quote]
--I believe we should not look on the practicality, but on what God demands from us.

God bless you. Pagpalain ka ng Diyos. Que Dios te bendiga.

Thomas

[Gemma]

The three emerging charisms are in the spirituality of St Euphrasia Pelletier. That is the common bond. The Magdalen aspirant is adapting the rule to an eremitical plan of life and is pursuing c.603. The GS aspirant has re-entered discernment, and the OSMM are simply living their rule.

The next time they go to the Chancery they will have a lived rule, and will have Cloister Outreach's stats to back them. OSMM, that is.

The graces to found a religious community are different from those of the priesthood. What you are experiencing are the preliminary graces which St Thomas Aquinas tells us are given to draw us to the sacraments.

I pray I have answered your questions.

Blessings,
Gemma

[quote name='tnavarro61' post='1949544' date='Aug 15 2009, 10:51 AM']Still cannot get this one.



--I do not question your charism. I didn't say your charism is weird.




--i cannot also understand why did you say that. you've already told me that.
When i felt I am called to, let's say, priesthood, am I already a priest?


--Maybe it's in my english that i cannot understand this.

The OSMM had their act together more quickly than the other two. I can't understand the relationship of branch-and-trunk "analogy" to the lifestyle of the members.



--What could be the reason? Is he too busy to even glance at special vocations, or something else?


--Yes I agree with this one. There's a need and many has responded.


--I believe we should not look on the practicality, but on what God demands from us.

God bless you. Pagpalain ka ng Diyos. Que Dios te bendiga.

Thomas[/quote]

[tnavarro61]

[quote]The three emerging charisms are in the spirituality of St Euphrasia Pelletier. That is the common bond. The Magdalen aspirant is adapting the rule to an eremitical plan of life and is pursuing c.603. The GS aspirant has re-entered discernment, and the OSMM are simply living their rule.[/quote]
--So, please explain the relevance of Canon Law 603 to the plan of the aspirant.

[quote]The next time they go to the Chancery they will have a lived rule, and will have Cloister Outreach's stats to back them. OSMM, that is.[/quote]
--As I understand this, the OSMMs are living the rule first before going back to the Chancery and ask permission, etc.?

[quote]The graces to found a religious community are different from those of the priesthood. --What you are experiencing are the preliminary graces which St Thomas Aquinas tells us are given to draw us to the sacraments.[/quote]
I gave the call of priesthood as an example. Just an example. I didn't say I feel called to priesthood. Your Mother-analogy is, yes, sound, but looking at different aspects i am seemed to be confused. Let say I was born in 1515 and entered a Carmelite monastery at 15. I felt the rule is relaxed and wanted to start a new branch, and so I am now, at that moment, the founder of the new Carmelite branch. Now, there was a nun who started the same movement that i have "just founded," and established a convent. They were called the Discalced Carmelite Nuns. Now, who is the legitimate founder?

[HisChild]

[quote name='tnavarro61' post='1950150' date='Aug 15 2009, 06:47 PM']I gave the call of priesthood as an example. Just an example. I didn't say I feel called to priesthood. Your Mother-analogy is, yes, sound, but looking at different aspects i am seemed to be confused. Let say I was born in 1515 and entered a Carmelite monastery at 15. I felt the rule is relaxed and wanted to start a new branch, and so I am now, at that moment, the founder of the new Carmelite branch. Now, there was a nun who started the same movement that i have "just founded," and established a convent. They were called the Discalced Carmelite Nuns. Now, who is the legitimate founder?[/quote]

Unless your foundations (the hypothetical you and the hypothetical nun, although I know you mean St. Teresa) are word-for-word exactly the same, I cannot imagine that one founder would be legitimate and the other be a fraud. Throughout history there are many saints, and Saints for that matter, who have found some laxities or errors within their communities and after attempting to change life from within, felt called to renew from without by founding a separate community. I'm sure if one were to take a much closer look at various orders-those existing now and those now extinct- they'll see offshoots, and perhaps occurring at the same time. I find it only a matter of obeying the Spirit.

God bless you.

[Gemma]

She has a copy of the original Magdalen rule, which she is adapting to the eremitic way of life. She takes all the same pàtrons, devotions, etc, as the Magdalens, but is living the life as a hermit. Each hermit has their own plan of life, and she is adapting a cenobitic life to an eremitic one. One of the penances she is adapting is that of kneeling to take her lunch at 11am on Fridays.

The OSMM--perhaps I should alert the foundress to the questions being asked about her charism.

Blessings,
Gemma

[quote name='tnavarro61' post='1950150' date='Aug 15 2009, 10:47 PM']--So, please explain the relevance of Canon Law 603 to the plan of the aspirant.


--As I understand this, the OSMMs are living the rule first before going back to the Chancery and ask permission, etc.?


I gave the call of priesthood as an example. Just an example. I didn't say I feel called to priesthood. Your Mother-analogy is, yes, sound, but looking at different aspects i am seemed to be confused. Let say I was born in 1515 and entered a Carmelite monastery at 15. I felt the rule is relaxed and wanted to start a new branch, and so I am now, at that moment, the founder of the new Carmelite branch. Now, there was a nun who started the same movement that i have "just founded," and established a convent. They were called the Discalced Carmelite Nuns. Now, who is the legitimate founder?[/quote]

[tnavarro61]

i cannot understand what you are talking about. now i do not know who am i talking to. nothing in my questions seem to be alerting.

i am still waiting for yur view abut being a founder at a the moment of conception.


[quote name='Gemma' post='1950472' date='Aug 17 2009, 02:50 AM']She has a copy of the original Magdalen rule, which she is adapting to the eremitic way of life. She takes all the same pàtrons, devotions, etc, as the Magdalens, but is living the life as a hermit. Each hermit has their own plan of life, and she is adapting a cenobitic life to an eremitic one. One of the penances she is adapting is that of kneeling to take her lunch at 11am on Fridays.

The OSMM--perhaps I should alert the foundress to the questions being asked about her charism.

Blessings,
Gemma[/quote]

Edited August 17, 2009 by tnavarro61

[Gemma]

[quote name='tnavarro61' post='1950974' date='Aug 17 2009, 01:46 AM']i cannot understand what you are talking about. now i do not know who am i talking to. nothing in my questions seem to be alerting.

i am still waiting for yur view abut being a founder at a the moment of conception.[/quote]

The charism grows in the founders' heart just as a baby grows inside its mother. This is the analogy the hermit-canonist used. A person is considered a founder at the very beginning.

I thought I was answering questions.

Blessings,
Gemma

[Thomist-in-Training]

[quote name='Gemma' date='17 August 2009 - 06:53 AM' timestamp='1250506422' post='1951036']
<!--quoteo(post=1950974:date=Aug 17 2009, 01:46 AM:name=tnavarro61)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tnavarro61 @ Aug 17 2009, 01:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1950974"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i cannot understand what you are talking about. now i do not know who am i talking to. nothing in my questions seem to be alerting.

i am still waiting for yur view abut being a founder at a the moment of conception.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

The charism grows in the founders' heart just as a baby grows inside its mother. This is the analogy the hermit-canonist used. A person is considered a founder at the very beginning.

I thought I was answering questions.

Blessings,
Gemma
[/quote]

Maybe tnavarro is confused because of your analogy. You often say that you are the "mother" of a charism and argue that that is the same as being the foundress of a religious order.

A baby in the womb is a person who starts very small, at conception, and gets bigger and bigger.

A religious community starts with 1 celibate man or woman who live a life related in some way to what the goal is for the community, and gradually includes more people who live together with the other person (hence "community").

I.e., having an idea and fervent desire is [i]not [/i] the same thing as the act of founding a religious community; whereas a fetus really is the same thing as a baby, it just grows in size.

[Gemma]

[quote name='Thomist-in-Training' date='17 August 2009 - 07:26 PM' timestamp='1250547979' post='1951388']
Maybe tnavarro is confused because of your analogy. You often say that you are the "mother" of a charism and argue that that is the same as being the foundress of a religious order.

A baby in the womb is a person who starts very small, at conception, and gets bigger and bigger.

A religious community starts with 1 celibate man or woman who live a life related in some way to what the goal is for the community, and gradually includes more people who live together with the other person (hence "community").

I.e., having an idea and fervent desire is [i]not [/i] the same thing as the act of founding a religious community; whereas a fetus really is the same thing as a baby, it just grows in size.
[/quote]

The biggest problem we emerging founders are encountering is this "are you official" stuff. The charism grows within the heart and soul of the founder, and with the help of the spiritual director, becomes reality. The group that forms is a "private association of the faithful with the intention of becoming an institute of religious life." We have between 35 and 40 members on our "founders and friends" yahoo group, and these charisms are starting to emerge. One founder on our "founders forum" group now has status within the Archdiocese of San Francisco.

If being official is so important, discern with "official" communities (established). Those who are called to a new foundation often feel within that they are to be part of something new. Religious tell their novices that they should not condemn other communities, they should just say, "That's not for me." The same holds true here.

What the OSMM did was attempt to get the diocesan Chancellor to acknowledge them as a private association of the faithful, and he wouldn't even do that. He told them there are other choices for women such as secular institutes (check the age limits, dear Rev. Mr.). The OSMM were going on retreat, and the retreat mistress, the former vicar for religious, told them that acknowledgement would be required before real veils could be worn.

Please note that a bishop cannot constitute a private association of the faithful--he can only acknowledge it. And before he acknowledges it, he has to know what they're all about, so it makes no sense to go to a bishop with only an idea in one's head. That wastes everybody's time.

I've advised the OSMM to let go and let God. They shouldn't be in a hurry for the piece of paper. They have to let the charism grow first, and show the diocese that they are doing good. They are living their rule, sans habit, and are starting their apostolates. The Spirit will let them know when it's time to go back to the Chancery.

Since the three emerging charisms have basically the same patrons (St John Eudes and St Euphrasia Pelletier), they are encouraging each other in their process. Each diocesan hermit is seen as their own charism, so the Magdalens starting eremitically with one hermit is indeed a renewal.

Thomas--I am trying my best to answer your questions. Perhaps George on Catholic Vocations Asia could help with translation or concepts.

Blessings,
Gemma

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='Thomist-in-Training' date='17 August 2009 - 06:26 PM' timestamp='1250547979' post='1951388']
Maybe tnavarro is confused because of your analogy. You often say that you are the "mother" of a charism and argue that that is the same as being the foundress of a religious order.

A baby in the womb is a person who starts very small, at conception, and gets bigger and bigger.

A religious community starts with 1 celibate man or woman who live a life related in some way to what the goal is for the community, and gradually includes more people who live together with the other person (hence "community").

I.e., having an idea and fervent desire is [i]not [/i] the same thing as the act of founding a religious community; whereas a fetus really is the same thing as a baby, it just grows in size.
[/quote]




I've drawn up plans for a religious community, even though I have no intention of ever starting one. I've discerned I am called to join an already established order, not form my own. I've drawn ideas for the habit and rule, but I would give them to someone else who felt called to form an order who was looking for the charism I have thought of.

Edited August 18, 2009 by MaterMisericordiae