ironmonk Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 It would be really cool to see this happen... Healthcare Freedom Day: August 21, 2009 [url="http://bit.ly/19uvu"]http://bit.ly/19uvu[/url] God Bless! ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 [quote name='ironmonk' post='1942756' date='Aug 7 2009, 11:38 AM']It would be really cool to see this happen... Healthcare Freedom Day: August 21, 2009 [url="http://bit.ly/19uvu"]http://bit.ly/19uvu[/url] God Bless! ironmonk[/quote] I'm glad you think having unstaffed hospitals, clinics and emergency rooms is a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamiller42 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1942760' date='Aug 7 2009, 01:41 PM']I'm glad you think having unstaffed hospitals, clinics and emergency rooms is a good idea.[/quote] Maybe they want to prepare the public for long lines and reduced service as it would be under Obama-care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle_eye222001 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 [quote name='kamiller42' post='1942899' date='Aug 7 2009, 04:39 PM']Maybe they want to prepare the public for long lines and reduced service as it would be under Obama-care.[/quote] As it is under any socialized health care. Not necessarily for absolutely everything but overall there is an increase in wait time. ---------------- Now playing: [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/norbertine+fathers+of+st.+michaels+abbey/track/giovanni+pierluigi+da+palestrina+-+panis+angelicus"]Norbertine Fathers of St. Michael's Abbey - Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina - Panis Angelicus[/url] via [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/"]FoxyTunes[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 [quote name='kamiller42' post='1942899' date='Aug 7 2009, 02:39 PM']Maybe they want to prepare the public for long lines and reduced service as it would be under Obama-care.[/quote] [url="http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.txt.pdf"]http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/ge...h3200ih.txt.pdf[/url] There's the bill. Please, enlighten me to where I'll find such things. I'm sure you've spent hours studying it since you have such lofty opinions about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoecool13 Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 This is by far the dumbest and stupidest idea ever on the face of the planet. Anyone that disagrees what will you do if you get sick or end up in an accident that day? [quote name='kamiller42' post='1942899' date='Aug 7 2009, 04:39 PM']Maybe they want to prepare the public for long lines and reduced service as it would be under Obama-care.[/quote] I'll take long lines any day over what I have to do now. I work for the Church and you wouldn't believe how horrible the insurance plans and premiums are. Surrounding dioceses' aren't much better. If you're upset over the health care plan due to the life issues, I totally understand, and agree. I don't like the bill at how it currently looks with the anti-life amendments in it. However, for those that are just against health care by the government just because you don't like it, what do you suggest? How is not providing aid and care to every person that could use it still being pro-life? It's not. It is our duty to help all people. People shouldn't have to choose between getting treatment or risk death because they can't afford it. And people wonder why America ranks almost last in infant and child mortality in comparison to other industrialized and first-world nations. (World Population Prospects: The 2006 Revision, pages 85-94) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 [quote name='Zoecool13' post='1943129' date='Aug 7 2009, 11:29 PM']I'll take long lines any day over what I have to do now. I work for the Church and you wouldn't believe how horrible the insurance plans and premiums are. Surrounding dioceses' aren't much better.[/quote] Would you still take long lines if you knew you were going to die waiting? I haven't spoken to a faithful Catholic doctor yet that won't leave their profession under Obamacare. Government run medical care is not the answer, and is a violation of what our country was built on. If you want better medical care in this country you have to change the legal system first that causes hospital and insurance bills to be so high. That is why our priest left the medical field after a career long practice. I work for the church too - the reason you pay what you do is because of a corrupted conference that runs your insurance. I do not take insurance through the church and pay all of my medical bills in cash as do many of the extremely wealthy people I know - it is far cheaper. The best thing if you are young and healthy is probably to have a good life insurance plan and catastrophe insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 [quote name='Zoecool13' post='1943129' date='Aug 7 2009, 09:29 PM']And people wonder why America ranks almost last in infant and child mortality in comparison to other industrialized and first-world nations. (World Population Prospects: The 2006 Revision, pages 85-94)[/quote] I understand that nations do not keep the same statistics; therefore the numbers are not really comparable. U.S. figures include highway deaths, for example, and other countries may not. etcetera. These figures were discussed today on Fox news, but I don't remember who gave the info. Fox may not have considered the same report discussed here, but a similar one. Anyway, nation vs. nation reports are apples and oranges. One thing we know for sure: people from other countries come to the U.S. for health care if they can afford it. We have the specialists and the technology and there's no waiting list (yet!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted August 8, 2009 Author Share Posted August 8, 2009 Many people uninsured in this nation are uninsured by choice. Anyone without any major medical issues can get individual health insurance for around $100 per month... if they want a higher deductible, they can get it for closer to $70 per month. Many people prefer to have the newest car or the big screen tv over health insurance. Plus, no one can be turned away from a emergency room in America. TV is not real life, hospitals cannot turn people away who cannot pay. Also, hospitals and doctors will work with people who want to pay, they can even cut cost close to 50% of the bill. If primary doctors know you're paying cash, they'll cut you a huge break... this is where the value of having a high deductible insurance plan and a health savings account (HSA) comes in very handy, there are OB/GYN's that will birth a baby for around $3k if you let them know up front you have an HSA. Hospitals and doctors charge a lot on paper because of people who do not pay and they can write things off as a loss. The government wants to control people's salaries, that's not freedom. The page clearly says that if they don't have seriously ill patients, I'm thinking they actually care... maybe you missed that point? What do you think will happen with the current doctor and nursing shortage that the system is flooded with 40,000,000 people who have anything from the common cold to a one day stomach bug? If people can see a doctor for free anytime they want then the system will get bogged down... I'm not guess at this, there are facts I hear from people from Europe and Canada about how they come here because the quality of healthcare is better and they don't have to wait nine months. Nothing of high quality is free... people need to make a profit... Why not cut your salary in half and work twice as hard? That's what obama wants to force on doctors. I know doctors that will quit. Someone spends hundreds of thousands of dollars and eight plus years of schooling, they deserve to make the big money. If I'm on a surgery table, the last thing I want my surgeon worrying about is how he's going to pay for his mortgage since Obama cut his salary down to a third of what he was making... Do you? I've worked on both the provider side and the payer side of healthcare... we have the best in the world... it's not broke... so don't break it. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted August 8, 2009 Author Share Posted August 8, 2009 [quote name='Katholikos' post='1943219' date='Aug 8 2009, 12:52 AM']I understand that nations do not keep the same statistics; therefore the numbers are not really comparable. U.S. figures include highway deaths, for example, and other countries may not. etcetera. These figures were discussed today on Fox news, but I don't remember who gave the info. Fox may not have considered the same report discussed here, but a similar one. Anyway, nation vs. nation reports are apples and oranges. One thing we know for sure: people from other countries come to the U.S. for health care if they can afford it. We have the specialists and the technology and there's no waiting list (yet!).[/quote] KATHOLIKOS!!!!! GREAT TO SEE YOU BROTHER! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestertonian Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1942902' date='Aug 7 2009, 02:45 PM'][url="http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.txt.pdf"]http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/ge...h3200ih.txt.pdf[/url] There's the bill. Please, enlighten me to where I'll find such things. I'm sure you've spent hours studying it since you have such lofty opinions about it.[/quote] Yeah, because I'm sure they mention all of the potential drawbacks of the bill, in the bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 [quote name='Chestertonian' post='1943227' date='Aug 7 2009, 09:59 PM']Yeah, because I'm sure they mention all of the potential drawbacks of the bill, in the bill. [/quote] The "drawbacks" are made up. I hear all this dribble about "long lines" and "rationing of care" with NO EVIDENCE. It's bull. This isn't going to be a single-payer system. It's reform on the rules of health insurance that also creates a public option for those who can't afford private. Unless you have specific proof FROM THE BILL, anything that comes out your mouth otherwise is pure bull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 [quote name='Brother Adam' post='1943181' date='Aug 7 2009, 09:32 PM']Would you still take long lines if you knew you were going to die waiting? I haven't spoken to a faithful Catholic doctor yet that won't leave their profession under Obamacare. Government run medical care is not the answer, and is a violation of what our country was built on. If you want better medical care in this country you have to change the legal system first that causes hospital and insurance bills to be so high. That is why our priest left the medical field after a career long practice. I work for the church too - the reason you pay what you do is because of a corrupted conference that runs your insurance. I do not take insurance through the church and pay all of my medical bills in cash as do many of the extremely wealthy people I know - it is far cheaper. The best thing if you are young and healthy is probably to have a good life insurance plan and catastrophe insurance.[/quote] It's not government run health care. It's government run health insurance. There is a major difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted August 8, 2009 Author Share Posted August 8, 2009 Obama is working toward a one payer system, which is a fact... here he is talking about it... [url="http://www.obamabeenlying.com/?p=89"]http://www.obamabeenlying.com/?p=89[/url] Now, it takes a little business understanding to know how the bill will destroy healthcare. It is going to force all businesses to give their employees healthcare or their employees can go on the government plan... so, businesses will have the option to either continue spending $250 to $1000 a month per employee on a small group health plan, or just let the government do it... what do you think will happen? There is a lot of evidence, this is not theory, it's a fact that socialized medicine is poor medicine. Innovation costs money, business minded people back innovation so they can make... OH MY GOSH... A PROFIT... HOW EVIL. How dare anyone want to make a better life for themselves and follow their dreams... heck, let's just call the jolly Queen of England and tell her how sorry we are for revolting all those years ago and beg her to rule us like they did back then. Who needs freedom and dreams. You speak from watching mainstream state media... I speak from working in the healthcare industry... from seeing what has happened to other countries that have done what Obama wants. Obama lies, and there are numerous videos on that site that prove it beyond all doubt... Do you really think he's going to tell the truth now that he's president? Answer: [b]NO[/b]. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted August 8, 2009 Author Share Posted August 8, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1943231' date='Aug 8 2009, 01:06 AM']It's not government run health care. It's government run health insurance. There is a major difference.[/quote] Obama said he wants to change the way doctors get paid... he wants them to get paid for "quality" not "quantity"... so there would have to be yet another HUGE gov agency monitoring it... who determines quality? What motivating factor would there be to work harder and help more people? none that pays the bills... You'll go to your doctor one day, then that night you'll see him busting tables at Applebees. Obama wants to control people's salaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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