Feminizing The Mass

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='26 August 2009 - 07:31 PM' timestamp='1251329476' post='1956659']
I will never forget hearing "God Rest Ye Merry Gentlepersons" sung at Midnight Mass a few years ago.
[/quote]

Try "God Rest Ye Merry Gentlefolk". I could see people around me were mouthing "Gentlefolk???" with a quizzical expression on their face.

Afterwards, I told the associate pastor (with whom I went to high school) something to the effect that if the liturgy director needed something to do, there are better uses of their time.

[OraProMe]

[quote name='VeniteAdoremus' date='26 August 2009 - 07:48 PM' timestamp='1251330500' post='1956670']
"Et in terra pax hominibus bonae voluntatis".

"hominibus" refers to "mankind" - yes, it comes from "homo", which is male, but when used in the plural it's both masculine and feminine, otherwise they would have used "vir", which means exclusively men.

So "And on earth peace to the people who want goodness" would be my only-high-school-Latin literal translation.

Not terribly poetic but the gender "problem" is not in the Latin.

In almost all (my sister might correct me on this, she's the linguist) languages with gendered words, the masculine is used for plurals. In French, if you're two females out walking, it'd be "elles se promenent": they-female. If you're a lady with a male dog, it'd be "ils se promenent": they-male The perceived gender bias in this is totally untraditional. So making a fuss because of the use of male plurals is actually like pulling yourself out of half the language. Now who's being exclusive?
[/quote]

mhhhm!
In italian the word for "boys" is the same word for "children" (a group of boys and girls).

[Marie-Therese]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='26 August 2009 - 07:31 PM' timestamp='1251329476' post='1956659']
I will never forget hearing "God Rest Ye Merry Gentlepersons" sung at Midnight Mass a few years ago.
[/quote]

Are you serious?!?!?

Wow. No words.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Marie-Therese' date='26 August 2009 - 08:40 PM' timestamp='1251340853' post='1956786']
Are you serious?!?!?[/quote]
Yes, and it really ruined the hymn.

[Marie-Therese]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='26 August 2009 - 10:53 PM' timestamp='1251341625' post='1956791']
Yes, and it really ruined the hymn.
[/quote]


No lie!! I would've just sung the right words at the top of my voice. I might've made a grade A jerk out of myself, but I would have felt better inside.

This whole gender pronoun issue grates my last nerve. To me it is the height of pompous nonsense. It seems a strange concept of God that one would only worship that God if the gender assignment was pleasing. Pfft.

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='06 August 2009 - 11:29 AM' timestamp='1249572551' post='1941908']
+J.M.J.+
his whole "i loudly proclaimed used the masculine" - that kind of attitude turns me off, no matter how 'right' someone may be.
[/quote]

I agree. He sure showed those meany stupid feminazi poopyheads! Right out loud! Right in mass!

And I think, while he is absolutely correct, the message itself MIGHT have more resonance with the lesser informed if it was a woman pointing these things out. Yeah, I said it. I suppose people might take it the wrong way, anyway, but those that really haven't given the issue much thought might take it the wrong way as "just another angry white guy who doesn't like any sort of equality" -- even though more informed Catholics know that's not what he's getting at.

Edited August 27, 2009 by Ash Wednesday

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='27 August 2009 - 09:04 AM' timestamp='1251385444' post='1956825']
I agree. He sure showed those meany stupid feminazi poopyheads! Right out loud! Right in mass!

And I think, while he is absolutely correct, the message itself MIGHT have more resonance with the lesser informed if it was a woman pointing these things out. Yeah, I said it. I suppose people might take it the wrong way, anyway, but those that really haven't given the issue much thought might take it the wrong way as "just another angry white guy who doesn't like any sort of equality" -- even though more informed Catholics know that's not what he's getting at.
[/quote]

[CatherineM]

It's the "Fishers of Men" thing that always gets me when they PC it to "fish for people." It always makes me think of Soylent Green.

[VeniteAdoremus]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='27 August 2009 - 06:04 PM' timestamp='1251385444' post='1956825']
I agree. He sure showed those meany stupid feminazi poopyheads! Right out loud! Right in mass!

And I think, while he is absolutely correct, the message itself MIGHT have more resonance with the lesser informed if it was a woman pointing these things out. Yeah, I said it. I suppose people might take it the wrong way, anyway, but those that really haven't given the issue much thought might take it the wrong way as "just another angry white guy who doesn't like any sort of equality" -- even though more informed Catholics know that's not what he's getting at.
[/quote]



[quote name='CatherineM' date='27 August 2009 - 07:56 PM' timestamp='1251392195' post='1956876']
It's the "Fishers of Men" thing that always gets me when they PC it to "fish for people." It always makes me think of Soylent Green.
[/quote]

You're right, it's VERY Soylent Green. Pass the ketchup?

I'm really happy that in my language the word "human" is widely used. When informally trying to get the attention of a group, you'd just shout "HUMANS!" and everybody would listen. So we've never had the men/people issue. Phew.

Has anyone ever heard "Siblings" instead of "Brethren"? That would be hilarious.