Trappists/trappistines

[VeniteAdoremus]

[quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1936738' date='Jul 31 2009, 10:03 PM']The Cistercians (Order of Cistercians of the Ancient Observance is their "modern" name) began as a reform of the Benedictines. The Trappists (Order of Cistercians of the Strict Observance) began as a reform of the Cistercians.

Whilst we wouldn't normally called Cistercians and Trappists "Benedictines" (although technically they are, because they follow the Rule of St. Benedict), one can [i]just about[/i] get away with calling a Trappist a Cistercian.

Both OCAO and OCSO make very good beer.[/quote]

One would wonder what's wrong with the Benedictines, that they need two reforms to straighten them out...



*runs*

[Thomist-in-Training]

[quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1936738' date='Jul 31 2009, 03:03 PM']The Cistercians (Order of Cistercians of the Ancient Observance is their "modern" name) began as a reform of the Benedictines. The Trappists (Order of Cistercians of the Strict Observance) began as a reform of the Cistercians.

Whilst we wouldn't normally called Cistercians and Trappists "Benedictines" (although technically they are, because they follow the Rule of St. Benedict), one can [i]just about[/i] get away with calling a Trappist a Cistercian.

Both OCAO and OCSO make very good beer.[/quote]

Ours in Dallas write it O.Cist. I don't know why.
I wish they made beer. That would be awesome. One of my friends works for them though and says they are posh.

[Luigi]

[quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1936976' date='Jul 31 2009, 06:13 PM']One would wonder what's wrong with the Benedictines, that they need two reforms to straighten them out...



*runs*[/quote]

I know in my soul that VeniteAdoremus was joking above (smile and nod, even if you weren't), and she herself probably knows the history of the Benedictines, Cistercians, and Trappists, but I include a brief and rather vague history here for some of the less widely read phatmass phamily. Ahem ... (clears throat and proceeds) ...

Around 450 AD, Benedict & Scholastica (biological brother & sister - twins, I believe) founded the Benedictine male & female branches. Fine - things went swimmingly for centuries, but then the order began to descend into decadence - too much land, money, & power, relaxation of practices & rules, secularization - all due to extremely complex social forces, etc.

Sts. Robert, Stephen, & Alberic, Benedictines in the monastery at Citeaux, reformed their monastery (plural?) to bring it back to the original Benedictine practices - I think this was about 1100, but if you want to be sure, look it up yourself. Many monasteries followed their lead and adopted the reforms instituted at Citeaux; monasteries that didn't participate in the reform remained OSB. (Citeaux is the French form of the place name; the Latin form led to the Order being called the Cistercians - hence O.Cist.). Fine - things went swimmingly for centuries, but then the Cistercians began to fall into decadence - too much land, money, & power, relaxation of practices & rules, secularization - all due to extremely complex social forces, etc.

About 1750 (ditto - if you want to be sure of the date, look it up yourself), Abbot de Rance of the Cistercian monastery at La Trappe decided to reform his monastery back to the original Cistercian observances (which you will recall were the original Benedictine observances). Since the Order of Cistercians (O.Cist.) were not being very strict with themselves, de Rance's group got labeled officially "Cistercians of the Strict Observance" (abbreviated OCSO) but referred to popularly as "The Trappists" (from the location of the monastery, La Trappe). Monasteries that didn't adopt the reforms remained O.Cist.

The early days of the Trappists were hectic, to say the least - the French Revolution & whatnot. But the Benedictine family, as it's now called, has always done good work, all three movements have had male & female monasteries, and the O.Cists & OCSOs get along quite well these days:The Trappists acknowledge that they are a flavor of Cistercians, which is why some of the Trappist monasteries refer to themselves as Cistercians on their websites; the Cistercian & Trappists collaborate on a journal of Cistercian Studies (articles from both branches get published, topics from both branches, in the libraries of both branches, etc); the O. Cist. & Trappist habits are quite similar - white versions of the original Benedictine black, with the Trappists adding a black piece, too; the Trappists outnumber the O.Cists. - at least in this country... I don't know how big the Order of Cistercians is worldwide or even in Europe.

To return to VeniteAdoremus' original naughty but fun implication - that there may be something wrong with Benedictines if they need so much reforming: I suppose it's true, but given the sheer number of monasteries there used to be, and the very great length of time they've been monking it up (and nunning it up, too), it's not to be wondered at that they've needed some reforms - every six or seven hundred years isn't too bad a record. The miracle - and I mean that literally - in my humble opinion, is that they accomplished the needed reforms.

The test on the above material will be given during next Friday's class - please bring your own #2 pencils.

Edited August 1, 2009 by Luigi

[Luigi]

"Both OCAO and OCSO make very good beer."

The (various) Trappists also make coagulated milk, fruitcake, creamed honey, candy, more fruitcake, more candy, mushrooms, still more candy, bread, jelly, and the Lord only knows what all else (implication: omniscience necessary to keep up with all of it). And all of it's good.

[VeniteAdoremus]

*smiles and nods*

Luigi, you are so cool.

I have decided you should move to England and assist my novice mistress in classes. (Bring Trappist candy.)

[puellapaschalis]

[quote name='Thomist-in-Training' post='1937264' date='Aug 1 2009, 04:04 AM']Ours in Dallas write it O.Cist. I don't know why.
I wish they made beer. That would be awesome. One of my friends works for them though and says they are posh.[/quote]

Aaaahhh, I knew I'd get something wrong - yes, the ancient observance use O.Cist. Thanks for pulling me up

[puellapaschalis]

[quote name='Luigi' post='1937418' date='Aug 1 2009, 06:58 AM']To return to VeniteAdoremus' original naughty but fun implication - that there may be something wrong with Benedictines if they need so much reforming: I suppose it's true, but given the sheer number of monasteries there used to be, and the very great length of time they've been monking it up (and nunning it up, too), it's not to be wondered at that they've needed some reforms - every six or seven hundred years isn't too bad a record. The miracle - and I mean that literally - in my humble opinion, is that they accomplished the needed reforms.[/quote]

VA did it not because of any intended slur on either OSBs, O.Cists or OCSOs as such (other than that they're not OPs), but because she thinks it's good fun to tease and make fun of her elder sister

[InHisLove726]

[quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1937778' date='Aug 1 2009, 04:28 AM']VA did it not because of any intended slur on either OSBs, O.Cists or OCSOs as such (other than that they're not OPs), but because she thinks it's good fun to tease and make fun of her elder sister [/quote]

LOL, are we going to have an all-out war between a Benedictine and a Dominican??? Can I come?

[puellapaschalis]

Nah, everyone sides with her anyway. It's not worth my while.

[InHisLove726]

[quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1937783' date='Aug 1 2009, 04:52 AM']Nah, everyone sides with her anyway. It's not worth my while.[/quote]


Ah, man!


I was hoping for some action



(but you know I would have sided with her anyways.... )

Edited August 1, 2009 by InHisLove726

[puellapaschalis]

Exactly my point...but this is how it generally transpires with VA and me anyway. Comes of her being prettier and such

[VeniteAdoremus]

[quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1937796' date='Aug 1 2009, 01:19 PM']Exactly my point...but this is how it generally transpires with VA and me anyway. Comes of her being prettier and such [/quote]

Yes, my prettiness is so all-encompassing that it even shines through [i]on internet forums where nobody has a clue what I look like, beyond disturbingly gigantic[/i]. (Okay, I posted a pic once, but it had cassocked priests and boy scouts in leather shorts as well so I bet nobody even tried to find out who I was in there.)

She does get more hits on [url="http://puellapaschalis.wordpress.com"]her blog[/url], which I hope suffices against the green monster. Looks are fleeting, the internet stays around forever!

And by the way, she's right, I [i]was[/i] dragging you all along just to tease her.

But it led us to a Luigi History Lesson, which is a prime example that God uses even our evil to do good, which was, of course, my original intent , which means it wasn't exactly evil, which means that trying to prove it made the proof invalid. (Do you want a diagram?)

Luigi, feel free to expand on some of the "things went swimmingly" because I'm sure there must be some gems in there. (For example, the very first "things went swimmingly" included St. Benedict's own monks trying to poison him - and that's where my knowledge of the Order ends!)

[InHisLove726]

It's this dratted Carmelite heart that loves you both, even if you are not Carmelites yourselves.

Puella, I'm sure you are not hideous. Even if you do have an evil side (don't we all ), I love ya anyway!

Ok, I've hijacked this topic long enough.


Cheers all.

[puellapaschalis]

Being gigantic in the vertical plane makes a person unusual in a nice way. Being gigantic in every other plane just makes someone fat. Everyone loves the former, no matter what they say, because everything they say is beautiful. Compare that with the latter.

My blog probably (?) gets more hits only because I hooked up on wp first and VA copied me some months later. Her's is better connected.

Oh well.

[InHisLove726]

[quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1937817' date='Aug 1 2009, 07:14 AM']Being gigantic in the vertical plane makes a person unusual in a nice way. Being gigantic in every other plane just makes someone fat. Everyone loves the former, no matter what they say, because everything they say is beautiful. Compare that with the latter.

My blog probably (?) gets more hits only because I hooked up on wp first and VA copied me some months later. Her's is better connected.

Oh well.[/quote]

I know what you mean. I've suffered with low self-esteem for years because, due to a combination of polycystic ovarian syndrome and anti-depressant therapy, I have put on a considerable amount of weight. Just a few months ago, I was at my highest of 200 lbs. Being 5'3", I'm putting myself at risk for diabetes, heart problems, etc. Not to mention that it would put a big damper on my discernment. I decided to start doing something about it and got on the Alli program. In a few months, I lost 13 lbs, and I'm still losing gradually. I probably should step it up with more exercise, but I'm not a very athletic person, unfortunately. My mom said recently that she regretted not getting my sister and I more involved in sports when we were little. Of course, I had bad asthma, so I couldn't really participate a lot in physical education.