In A World Without Abortion

[Varg]

Are you getting egalitarianism confused with communism?

[Winchester]

[quote name='Varg' post='1936917' date='Jul 31 2009, 05:39 PM']Are you getting egalitarianism confused with communism?[/quote]
No, I'm not. Communism is rooted in egalitarianism, but it is a political system.

[Varg]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1936916' date='Jul 31 2009, 04:39 PM']We are quite used to being called bigots for standing up for the truth that people don't want to hear.[/quote]Sorry, I don't see any "truth" here, could you point it out for me?

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Varg' post='1937788' date='Aug 1 2009, 04:01 AM']Sorry, I don't see any "truth" here, could you point it out for me?[/quote]

That's a whole semester's worth of Philosophy. The Truth is following the Natural Law of how God made us to be. I wasn't born to be a gymnast. I'm way too tall. That doesn't mean the world is discriminating against me because I can't be an Olympic gymnast.

[Winchester]

Cast not your pearls before swine.

Or trolls.

[Socrates]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1936600' date='Jul 31 2009, 12:01 PM']I think we are born on a bell curve of sexuality. I think our culture has tilted the curve in a way that is no longer healthy.[/quote]
I'm not aware of any newborn infants engaging in any type of sexuality.

A lot can go wrong in a child's development between birth and adolescence.

Sexuality in accord with natural law is that between man and woman which fulfills the natural purpose of sex towards the propagation of the species. Anything else is a perversion, of which there are many varieties, and there is no actual evidence that any of them are predetermined at birth. That is merely a politically-correct hypothesis, rather than scientific fact.


Incidentally, I also find it rather interesting how politically-correct social liberals typically are adamant that homosexual behavior is biologically predetermined at birth, yet are also equally adamant that any behavioral differences between the two sexes are purely culturally-conditioned, and have nothing to do with biology.

[StGiannaismyhero!]

[color="#9932CC"][quote name='zunshynn' post='1932458' date='Jul 26 2009, 01:14 PM']Interesting questions. I think I heard a Sister of Life say once that even when abortion is out of the picture, they will still have a very much needed charism and apostolate.

I think pro-life energy should continue to go to stopping contraception primarily, and also euthanasia, helping the impoverished, capital punishment and abuse victims.

But fundamentally, I think there will always be a place for pro-life efforts in simply increasing our understanding of the dignity of the human person and the value of life. That understanding is ultimately where we need to get to. I honestly think that the acceptance of contraception is the chief reason that we have most of these problems in the world... It's the root of all of it. As long as we have that contraceptive mentality, that human beings are burdens, we will never live in a truly just society.

When people come to realize their own dignity, and the dignity of others, (which will always be a work in progress, and therefore, always something for the prolife movement to strive for), all of these other issues will cease to be issues, at least for the most part.[/quote]
Amen! I am going to join the Sisters of Life and even though they work with the abortion side of the issue, if that wasn't an issue and more we would still need to work on building a culture of life.

JMJ+
~Betsy

Totus tuus Maria! [/color]

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1940237' date='Aug 3 2009, 11:12 PM']I'm not aware of any newborn infants engaging in any type of sexuality.

A lot can go wrong in a child's development between birth and adolescence.

Sexuality in accord with natural law is that between man and woman which fulfills the natural purpose of sex towards the propagation of the species. Anything else is a perversion, of which there are many varieties, and there is no actual evidence that any of them are predetermined at birth. That is merely a politically-correct hypothesis, rather than scientific fact.


Incidentally, I also find it rather interesting how politically-correct social liberals typically are adamant that homosexual behavior is biologically predetermined at birth, yet are also equally adamant that any behavioral differences between the two sexes are purely culturally-conditioned, and have nothing to do with biology.[/quote]

I don't believe that homosexual behavior is predetermined at birth. When I say sexuality, I'm not talking about sex. I'm talking about our sense of self as gender. Whether it is an in vitro chemical issue or genetic, I don't know, but some feminization of males must have been present for a very long time, otherwise, the bible wouldn't have needed to mention a ban on homosexual activity. The problem is that those without a proper sense of their natural sexuality have no incentive anymore to right their ships.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1940237' date='Aug 4 2009, 05:12 AM']Incidentally, I also find it rather interesting how politically-correct social liberals typically are adamant that homosexual behavior is biologically predetermined at birth, yet are also equally adamant that any behavioral differences between the two sexes are purely culturally-conditioned, and have nothing to do with biology.[/quote]
Hmm, hadn't thought about that - good point.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1940237' date='Aug 3 2009, 11:12 PM']Incidentally, I also find it rather interesting how politically-correct social liberals typically are adamant that homosexual behavior is biologically predetermined at birth, yet are also equally adamant that any behavioral differences between the two sexes are purely culturally-conditioned, and have nothing to do with biology.[/quote]


I'd say the confusion emerges because this class of individuals who simultaneously hold these two obviously contradictory views are constructions of your imagination.

Thinkers of one group, whose views you have distorted, typically are proponents of evolutionary psychology and Chomskian linguistics while groups of the other are often feminist theorists or subscribe to certain "fluffy" schools of psychology. Steven Pinker traces some of the conflict between the groups in "How the Mind Works". I think you would find few serious academics who can clearly be grouped by your stark dichotomy.

I don't even know what classifies someone as a "social liberal" by your definition. You use the term like it has some clear meaning. You just constantly launch these silly cliches at this mysterious group of liberals. You are a smart man, you should be able to learn more about this group you have positioned yourself in opposition to. Certainly more than these confused cliches.

[Winchester]

I understands what's meant by the term, in spite of variances within their herd. I run into them on a regular basis. There are a great many who realize that men an women are different, but believe we should ignore differences. Though they also trumpet "diversity" which seems to mean, practically, rejecting white male western society in favor of all other cultures, including those that would just as soon kill every liberal in the world as eat a dreamsicle. Because this group is ruled entirely by feelings and whatever the latest news report said, they are hard to nail down. Their leaders (who, unfortunately, are our leaders) exhibit no better capability for rational thought, although they are known to add in whatever the latests foreign leaders in weaker countries have suggested. Its sounds jingoistic to refer to other countries in such a manner, but I have realized that other countries are populated almost entirely by their own jingoes. Americans seem to be the only cultural group that has a culture trying to convince itself it's not worthy and inferior to everyone else.

[Didacus]

[quote name='Varg' post='1936468' date='Jul 31 2009, 09:07 AM']You can't stop something that occurs naturally (homosexuality)...Oh yeah and atheism isn't a "problem". Plus the world is already overpopulated. What will happen if you "resolve" contraception?[/quote]

Homosexuality might still be around, but I was refering to seperation of 'sex' and 'procreation'; this is the common link between abortion and homosexuality. It is also the common grouncd that links contraception as well. As soon as someone understands that sex and procreation cannot be morally seperated, then the immorality of abortion, contraception and homosexual acts comes to light.

I stated a little too quickly in my orignial post, I did mean to say homosexual acts.




I won't even start on born or 'not born' that way, or if its natural or not. The evidence is there, and if you don't see it for yourself, you never will.


You can add that the Church can invest Her time in disproving the overpopulation myth to my list.

[Socrates]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1940267' date='Aug 4 2009, 12:48 AM']I don't believe that homosexual behavior is predetermined at birth. When I say sexuality, I'm not talking about sex. I'm talking about our sense of self as gender. Whether it is an in vitro chemical issue or genetic, I don't know, but some feminization of males must have been present for a very long time, otherwise, the bible wouldn't have needed to mention a ban on homosexual activity. The problem is that those without a proper sense of their natural sexuality have no incentive anymore to right their ships.[/quote]
I'm not sure that newborns come into the world with a fully-developed "sense of self as gender" either.
However a tendency towards homosexuality and all other kinds of perversion and sin has existed since the Fall. Bestiality was also banned in the Bible. Whether any of it has to do with chemical or genetic issues is largely irrelevant.

Mostly I'm sick of the assertion that people are "born gay" or that "God made some people gay" being made as if it were fact, when in fact there is no solid evidence to this regard.

I agree with your last statement, though. Human behavior is not set in stone and unchangeable, and human beings are responsible for their own behavior.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1940630' date='Aug 4 2009, 06:04 PM']or that "God made some people gay" being made as if it were fact, when in fact there is no solid evidence to this regard.[/quote]


We can both agree that nobody was made gay by God. Albeit for different reasons.

[Didacus]

I can believe in inclinations towards homosexuality, much like some people have greater inclinations towards alcoholism.

However, the presence and strength of the inclination does not justify the act.


Remember the prison effect, were men who had no inclination to homosexuality in their lives, found jailed for years surrounded by other male criminals, will often revert to homosexuality. Once released, these men revert back to heterosexuality once they have the opportunity to gain contact with women.