In A World Without Abortion

[Varg]

[quote name='Sirklawd' post='1934671' date='Jul 29 2009, 08:16 AM']not the euthenasia's ive personally been a part of, its always been a group decision.

every single one had these parts:
1. patient in bed, often cant speak because of an accident or because of a medical condition or something, usually cant move that much
2. family members get it in their head that this person doesnt want to live like this. OR family members get it in their head that THEY dont want to live with their family member like this...
3. feeding stops.
4. patient slowly starves to death over the next 2 weeks
4a. they (naturally) start to "look worse" (weaker, sicker) - cuz they arnt friggin eating - which only encourages the feelings from step 2
5. patient gets flooded with anti-pain meds
6. the patient starves to death and is usually too high on pain meds to notice

everyone for euthenasia should watch a person starve to death over the course of a week or two.

honestly it comes down to two choices. either A. that people have the right, of their own opinion, to end their own lives if they decide things get too tough. or B. no matter what, life is better than death, and there is hope.

Which world do you want to encourage? We are for B.[/quote]What the hell sort of euthanasia is that!? Proper euthanasia (the euthanasia I'm talking about) is done by the patient CHOOSING to take a lethal dose of meds. Death is quick and painless.

[Varg]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1934762' date='Jul 29 2009, 11:59 AM']I was attacked in 1991. Thrown down a marble staircase, stabbed, strangled. I suffered a head injury, a knee injury and a pretty bad back injury. I eventually ended up in a wheelchair for 8 years. I still walk with a crutch, and am in pain most of the time, but don't take anything stronger than tylenol. I've seen people with chronic pain get on the pain meds merry-go-round, and that's a place I don't want to go.[/quote]Ouch, that's horrible

[quote name='Sirklawd' post='1934671' date='Jul 29 2009, 08:16 AM']honestly it comes down to two choices. either A. that people have the right, of their own opinion, to end their own lives if they decide things get too tough. or B. no matter what, life is better than death, and there is hope.

Which world do you want to encourage? We are for B.[/quote]So earth is better than heaven? I'm pretty sure that goes against what the church teaches....

Edited July 29, 2009 by Varg

[Winchester]

[quote name='Sirklawd' post='1934759' date='Jul 29 2009, 12:51 PM']what I posted wasnt about method, it was about the supposed "voluntary" aspect of euthanasia.[/quote]
You made the argument using the example of a slow method. You appealed to emotion.

[VeniteAdoremus]

The choice for euthanasia can be made at two times:

1. when it's not yet an issue
2. when it's highly relevant

Of the people who choose in advance ("I don't want to live like that") the overwhelming majority finds out later that they are much stronger than they suspected, and revoke their decision. (My dad works with people in these situations. There are no stats, but he has yet to encounter someone who actually goes through with it after deciding up front.)

Of the people who choose while they are ill, the overwhelming majority is vulnerable. It's not that they're not thinking straight - most often they are. But for almost all of them one of the arguments is that they don't want to put their family through a long process - they don't want to be a burden. Now, I would prefer keeping them comfortable, even if that means making them sleep, to killing them off in order to not let them be a burden.

We all have a time to go. We're made to go at that time.

[Winchester]

There will come a time when the government decides for you.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1935496' date='Jul 30 2009, 07:52 AM']There will come a time when the government decides for you.[/quote]

I hope not.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1935498' date='Jul 30 2009, 08:56 AM']I hope not.[/quote]
We know you won't expect it.

[bonkers]

[quote name='Servant of Divine' post='1932210' date='Jul 25 2009, 11:21 PM']In the idealic world in which abortion is non-exsitant where the energy of the pro-life movement and the Church go? Would it go to helping nations end capital punishment and euthanasia?[/quote]

It would go wherever there is power to be gained. Euthenasia isn't prevalent enough and given the churches history with capital punishment I don't think it would fly. IMO contraception would be the next great evil, responsible for the mini abortions of trillions and trillions of sperm.

[Didacus]

[quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1932363' date='Jul 26 2009, 09:16 AM'] [url="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/letters/article6725302.ece"]This is a great article.[/url]

Start rant:

Euthanasia, and I say this as a Dutch person, where it is legal, isn't just about ending someone's suffering. It is entirely about what value you give to suffering. And since suffering is part of life as much as joy, hunger, and all other feelings are, it's about what life means to you.

Living in a society that accepts death as a good alternative to suffering, that thinks the only life worth living is a "dignified" or even a productive life, is being part of a group of people that is severely delusional about what their own lives are worth. There's more to life than good times. If you only live the good, healthy times and try to get out of the suffering by even the most extreme measure available to us, you are doing yourself a [i]tremendous[/i] disservice.

End rant.

[snip][/quote]

I like this rant...

[Didacus]

In theory, if the scurge of abortion is resolved then;

contraception is also resolved
homosexuality is also resolved

and perhaps even divorce and prostitution are also resolved

(at the core, these are rooted in the same evil)


Soooo, basically, you're asking what is the next biggest problem the Church may want to tackle?

Greed comes to mind (one of the biggest traps of capitalism)
Conversions? (plenty more to convert out there)
Christian unity (goes hand in hand with conversions)
Atheism? (also goes hand in hand with previous two)

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='bonkers' post='1935936' date='Jul 30 2009, 07:03 PM']It would go wherever there is power to be gained. Euthenasia isn't prevalent enough and given the churches history with capital punishment I don't think it would fly. IMO contraception would be the next great evil, responsible for the mini abortions of trillions and trillions of sperm.[/quote]
I think contraception, or rather, the failure of contraception adds to the amount of abortions. When you think of sex as 'love-free' and only about carnal passions, it is inherently 'life-free', making the path to abortion that much easier when contraception failure occurs.

It a sad cycle.. treat eachother like objects, 'medicate' yourself so as not to bring a person into the world, harm yourself with said 'medication', have failure of the contraception, wonder how 'could this happen, i was safe'; then do the least safe thing to your baby and kill the precious life. The, when all 'healed' up, get all hot and bothered and do it all again.

Without love, there is nothing.

[Varg]

[quote name='Didacus' post='1936445' date='Jul 31 2009, 07:33 AM']In theory, if the scurge of abortion is resolved then;

contraception is also resolved
homosexuality is also resolved

and perhaps even divorce and prostitution are also resolved

(at the core, these are rooted in the same evil)


Soooo, basically, you're asking what is the next biggest problem the Church may want to tackle?

Greed comes to mind (one of the biggest traps of capitalism)
Conversions? (plenty more to convert out there)
Christian unity (goes hand in hand with conversions)
Atheism? (also goes hand in hand with previous two)[/quote]

You can't stop something that occurs naturally (homosexuality)...Oh yeah and atheism isn't a "problem". Plus the world is already overpopulated. What will happen if you "resolve" contraception?

Edited July 31, 2009 by Varg

[MIKolbe]

how is homosexuality natural? or how does it occur naturally?

[Varg]

Well, people are born gay, they don't choose it. I'd say that was pretty natural, wouldn't you? If not, then please state your definiton of "natural"

[VeniteAdoremus]

Natural or not*, homosexuality occurred WAY before abortion. So I don't think solving the one will influence the other.


*not getting into that one again (not today at least )