Why Does God Hide Himself?

[Macies]

So we can seek Him.

[Katholikos]

For those who may be reading this thread but do not know, the Church teaches that the [color="#0000FF"][i]substance[/i][/color] of the bread and wine are changed into the [color="#0000FF"][i]substance[/i][/color] of the flesh and blood of our Lord, Jesus Christ.

Catholics do not consume the flesh of a toe, for example, or type AB blood.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1940292' date='Aug 4 2009, 03:23 AM']The key word to focus on in my response is "enhypostatic," and not "attribute" or even "property." The term "enhypostatic" is used by the Fathers to speak of a thing that really subsists (i.e., exists) in a hypostasis.

Thus, the energies are really existing "things" in God from which we form concepts about Him, but our intellectual conceptions of God are necessarily distanciated from the actual experience of His energies, which is why St. Gregory of Nyssa said that ". . . every concept grasped by the mind becomes an obstacle in the quest to those who search." The knowledge of God is beyond man's created intellect, for there is no analogy of being between that which is contingent and that which verily is, which is why the vision of God entails a knowing that involves not knowing, and a seeing that involves not seeing.

Theology, in the proper sense of the word, is not discursive; rather, it is experiential.[/quote]

A random thought popped into my head sometime over the weekend... are enhypostatic realities distinguished from what we normally refer to as attributes or properties because attributes, such as height, talent, or skin and eye color, are created by God while enhypostatic realities, which I presume are such things as grace, mercy, and justice, are inseparable from God. They define what we know about God and they can affect Creation, but they are not themselves created because they are part of the eternal and unchanging reality of God.

In other words, if a ruler happens to be a skilled pianist, his talent is a gift created by God and nurtured through hours of practice; but if in ruling his country he proves to be merciful to those in need, whether or not he is conscious of it, it is only by God's grace that he gives mercy because wherever there is mercy, God is present and working through anyone who performs an act of mercy.

Is that on the right track?

Edited August 10, 2009 by LouisvilleFan

[musturde]

The same reason he made us: he has too much time on his hands.
But at the same time he's outside of time.
Does it make more sense now?

[Semalsia]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1939641' date='Aug 3 2009, 02:27 PM']That is between you and God. Regardless of what you understand, you could still be living in God's grace and seeking Him, especially in prayer. This is how you open yourself in a way that God can reveal Himself, so that you can know Him and properly love Him.[/quote]


Are you saying then that prayer is the only way to gain evidence or knowledge of God's existence? Does that not require a leap of faith also? And what if you don't pray?

How is it fair that in order to be saved God demands some people to do something which they are not able to do?

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='Semalsia' post='1945770' date='Aug 10 2009, 09:00 PM']....

How is it fair that in order to be saved God demands some people to do something which they are not able to do?[/quote]

Like what?

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[Semalsia]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' post='1945775' date='Aug 11 2009, 01:06 AM']Like what? [/quote]

To have faith.

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='Semalsia' post='1945795' date='Aug 10 2009, 09:34 PM']To have faith.[/quote]

Isn't that a personal choice?

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[Semalsia]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' post='1945796' date='Aug 11 2009, 01:36 AM']Isn't that a personal choice?[/quote]

If it is then they are unable to make it.

[eagle_eye222001]

More accurately, they chose whether to have it or not. Opportunity knocked.

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[Semalsia]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' post='1945800' date='Aug 11 2009, 01:42 AM']More accurately, they chose whether to have it or not. Opportunity knocked.[/quote]

Sometimes possible things are not possible to do. Like walking off a cliff when you are scared to die.

And faith may not be possible at all. You'd need to trust and you can't just choose to trust something. Especially the unknown.

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='Semalsia' post='1945808' date='Aug 10 2009, 10:02 PM']Sometimes possible things are not possible to do. Like walking off a cliff when you are scared to die.[/quote]

Not a parallel example.

[quote]And faith may not be possible at all. You'd need to trust and you can't just choose to trust something. Especially the unknown.[/quote]

Which is why you look at the arguments for why you should trust something as opposed to just blindly choosing to do so.

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[Hassan]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' post='1945829' date='Aug 10 2009, 09:44 PM']Which is why you look at the arguments for why you should trust something as opposed to just blindly choosing to do so.

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And there are no compelling arguments to support traditional Christianity, Judaism or Islam. I assume the same is true for Hinduism and Buddhism but I haven't checked.

Not even a single sound argument for the most vague sort of God.

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1945834' date='Aug 10 2009, 10:50 PM']And there are no compelling arguments to support traditional Christianity, Judaism or Islam. I assume the same is true for Hinduism and Buddhism but I haven't checked.

Not even a single sound argument for the most vague sort of God.[/quote]

Correct. All believers are blind ducks that can't think for themselves and don't realize that there is ultimately no sound argument for a god nor no sound argument for no god. All believers are suckers.

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[Hassan]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' post='1945836' date='Aug 10 2009, 10:54 PM']Correct. All believers are blind ducks that can't think for themselves and don't realize that there is ultimately no sound argument for a god nor no sound argument for no god. All believers are suckers.[/quote]


I said no such thing and there are numerous theists whose intellectual powers I have praised here. Men like Seyyed Hossein Nasr, the present Pope, Kurt Godel et cetera. I said there were no sound arguments for the existence of God.

If you have one please post it. If not then we should agree that there are not valid arguments for any of the monotheisms.