Theologian in Training Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 [quote name='Kitty' post='1932529' date='Jul 26 2009, 04:56 PM']God wants to avoid papparazi?[/quote] They want to remain hidden, just like Jesus, once they realized who He is. So, in some sense, though you probably meant it tongue in cheek, you are not wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted July 27, 2009 Author Share Posted July 27, 2009 On one hand God performs extraordinary miracles, and even punishments, but on the other it's almost as if he's silently observing. Even in times of difficulty when we pray, it's as if nothing happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theologian in Training Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 [quote name='mortify' post='1932856' date='Jul 27 2009, 01:03 AM']On one hand God performs extraordinary miracles, and even punishments, but on the other it's almost as if he's silently observing. Even in times of difficulty when we pray, it's as if nothing happens.[/quote] What is supposed to "happen?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvilleFan Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1932253' date='Jul 26 2009, 02:16 AM']I don't know about you, but I would find it difficult to eat the accidents of flesh.[/quote] Not if it's cow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvilleFan Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 (edited) [quote name='mortify' post='1932856' date='Jul 27 2009, 01:03 AM']On one hand God performs extraordinary miracles, and even punishments, but on the other it's almost as if he's silently observing. Even in times of difficulty when we pray, it's as if nothing happens.[/quote] Like a consecration? To the original question, the heart of the matter is love. God wants our sacrifice, our obedience, and our prayers, but he wants them to be expressions of love. If we regard God as simply a fact, our hearts remain cold and uninspired; but when we encouter him as a communion of three divine persons, we can know God personally and truly love him. If God reveals himself to all of mankind, he has forfeited our opportunity to love him out of heartfelt desire. Instead, we may just obey him because he's God and it's not like there's another God out there. That's not a healthy and fulfilling relationship. Edited July 27, 2009 by LouisvilleFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lounge Daddy Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I tend to think that if God showed Himself, he would (oddly enough) be demonized by a lot of people. So many times, less is more. Less is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregorius Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 God is demonized by many people here right now. Revealing Himself certainly would not help the issue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvilleFan Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 [quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1933009' date='Jul 27 2009, 11:22 AM']I tend to think that if God showed Himself, he would (oddly enough) be demonized by a lot of people. So many times, less is more. Less is better.[/quote] Hmm... like the Crucifixion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 [quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1933004' date='Jul 27 2009, 08:59 AM']Like a consecration? To the original question, the heart of the matter is love. God wants our sacrifice, our obedience, and our prayers, but he wants them to be expressions of love. If we regard God as simply a fact, our hearts remain cold and uninspired; but when we encouter him as a communion of three divine persons, we can know God personally and truly love him. If God reveals himself to all of mankind, he has forfeited our opportunity to love him out of heartfelt desire. Instead, we may just obey him because he's God and it's not like there's another God out there. That's not a healthy and fulfilling relationship.[/quote] very well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted July 28, 2009 Author Share Posted July 28, 2009 [quote name='Theologian in Training' post='1933000' date='Jul 27 2009, 08:39 AM']What is supposed to "happen?"[/quote] Some sort of response. There was a pillar of fire that led the Israelites away from Egypt, why are these miracles so rare nowadays? It seems we must look to the past for such extraordinary events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvilleFan Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 (edited) [quote name='mortify' post='1933518' date='Jul 27 2009, 11:48 PM']Some sort of response. There was a pillar of fire that led the Israelites away from Egypt, why are these miracles so rare nowadays? It seems we must look to the past for such extraordinary events.[/quote] I went through a phase several years ago when I wanted to see something miraculous. By coincidence, my cousin invited me to a Catholic charismatic youth retreat. I know charismatic stuff is controversial, but this was a good group that prayed the Mass reverently, adored the Eucharist, and simply allowed the Holy Spirit to work without peer pressure or any sense that we needed to be "validated" by a gift of the Spirit. Nothing happened to me, but I witnessed the Spirit work in others -- not just in doing "cool" stuff, but truly giving people what they needed to grow past some hurt and heal or to rediscover joy. And there was no mistaking the love shared among that group centered around Christ and the Church. Since that experience, I've really had no need or desire to witness extraordinary or miraculous events, except the desire for conversion among friends whose hearts are hardened towards the Gospel. Don't know if a charismatic retreat would be the answer in your case, but I'm sure if you take your questions/desires to God, he knows what to provide. Another thing to keep in mind is that even in Israelite history there were times when miracles were rare. The Israelites were slaves in Egypt for 400 years praying for God to rescue them before that pillar of fire lead them away -- and how did they respond? There was also a period of I think 400 or 700 years between the Babylonian exile and Christ when miracles were rare. 1 Samuel 3:1 also refers to a time when "the word of the LORD was rare" before God raised up Samuel. It's entirely possible that our society and culture have grown too cold towards the Truth during our time. Still, Lourdes and Fatima are relatively recent events. Regardless, whether such miracles occur or not, the greatest miracle we have until Christ returns. For those who have eyes to see, it happens at every Mass. Other miracles may offer visual evidence, but even they can be denied or rejected -- God pulled out all the stops with one impressive miracle after another to redeem the Israelites from slavely, and they pawned it off for a golden calf at the first sign of difficulty. In the Eucharist, we need to accept the miracle of Christ's Presence with eyes of faith because that truly is the only way any miracle is accepted. Edited July 28, 2009 by LouisvilleFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theologian in Training Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 (edited) [quote name='mortify' post='1933518' date='Jul 27 2009, 11:48 PM']Some sort of response. There was a pillar of fire that led the Israelites away from Egypt, why are these miracles so rare nowadays? It seems we must look to the past for such extraordinary events.[/quote] Back then, there was a simpler faith too. In the 8th Century, in tiny village in Italy called Lanciano, a priest starts to have doubts of the Real Presence, during the Consecration the bread and wine physically turned into body and blood, countless scientists have examined it and determined it is flesh from a heart and blood normal blood. If you go to Italy you can see this beautiful miracle. [url="http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html"]http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html[/url] Miracles still do happen, but not as frequently as they once had Edited July 28, 2009 by Theologian in Training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirklawd Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 God doesnt want to "rule" over the world and force people to believe. This is why he doesnt crack open the sky and stand over us in an undeniable display of his existence and power. He wants an intimate relationship with each of us. We are not humans and God. We are each and everyone one of us, on a personal level, and God. His desire for us is not merely to believe in him, but to love him as he loves us. The Eucharist is the ultimate source of this love for us while we are on this earth because its him, offering everything he is and has, to us, in love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle_eye222001 Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 [quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1933009' date='Jul 27 2009, 10:22 AM']I tend to think that if God showed Himself, he would (oddly enough) be demonized by a lot of people. So many times, less is more. Less is better.[/quote] I've thought about that. If a non-believer witnessed an apparition or miracle of some sort, would they necessarily become a believer? It seems plausible to think that the miracle possible could be attributed to some other explanation or they would treat the miracle as ghosts having fun or come to some other inappropriate response. ---------------- Now playing: [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/linkin+park/track/new+divide"]Linkin Park - New Divide[/url] via [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/"]FoxyTunes[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted July 29, 2009 Author Share Posted July 29, 2009 How does hiding promote sincere worship/love? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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