Coolest. Paintings. Ever.

[philothea]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1925040' date='Jul 19 2009, 05:19 PM']+J.M.J.+
I don't get the appeal.[/quote]
Some of them are cute, though I'm kind of put off by the intended purpose of mockery.

[morostheos]

[quote name='philothea' post='1925092' date='Jul 19 2009, 06:28 PM']Some of them are cute, though I'm kind of put off by the intended purpose of mockery.[/quote]
Agreed.

[OraProMe]

[quote name='philothea' post='1925092' date='Jul 19 2009, 06:28 PM']Some of them are cute, though I'm kind of put off by the intended purpose of mockery.[/quote]

Yeah. Did you get that, Resurrexi?
I'm a little surprised that you'd describe them as the coolest considering the artistic motivation. For example the one of the cardinal posing and there is a peacock behind him or the cardinal looking into the mirror. Those two made me laugh but I expect they'd make you constipated.

:/

Edited July 20, 2009 by OraProMe

[jeffpugh]

I didn't realise those were made to mock the cardinals. I thought they said there was that motivation in the past, but not with these necessarily? And then there is the polar opposite where cardinals are depicted as lifeless and boring. lawl. They can't make up their mind on how Catholics smell of elderberries. I guess that makes them wrong by logical accounts.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1925040' date='Jul 19 2009, 05:19 PM']+J.M.J.+
I don't get the appeal.[/quote]
[quote name='OraProMe' post='1925158' date='Jul 19 2009, 09:39 PM']Yeah. Did you get that, Resurrexi?
I'm a little surprised that you'd describe them as the coolest considering the artistic motivation. For example the one of the cardinal posing and there is a peacock behind him or the cardinal looking into the mirror. Those two made me laugh but I expect they'd make you constipated.

:/[/quote]

Seriously. Do you all not get that they're portraying these clergy as fat-cats who do nothing but sit around, play with their pets, indulge in their own little hobbies or passions (the one with them sipping their wines and admiring/creating paintings, playing cards, etc.), and engage in hypocritical activities (especially with the one admiring his own reflection and the one with the cardinal paralleled by the peacock (a traditional symbol of pride,and not the good kind))?
I mean the page is titled "Lifestyles of the Rich and Clerical"...really? You don't see that they're openly mocking the Church and her clergy, y'all? Sure they might be pretty or whatever, but I see them as an insult.
But that's just me.

[KnightofChrist]

Well before doing some quick research on the artists I saw the paintings not as mockery but private behind the scenes of the cardinals lives that was lively and comical.

Compared to most of the garbage that people watch or listen to this is nothing. Still the paintings where created to mock, and I take back liking them.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' post='1925184' date='Jul 19 2009, 09:31 PM']Seriously. Do you all not get that they're portraying these clergy as fat-cats who do nothing but sit around, play with their pets, indulge in their own little hobbies or passions (the one with them sipping their wines and admiring/creating paintings, playing cards, etc.), and engage in hypocritical activities (especially with the one admiring his own reflection and the one with the cardinal paralleled by the peacock (a traditional symbol of pride,and not the good kind))?
I mean the page is titled "Lifestyles of the Rich and Clerical"...really? You don't see that they're openly mocking the Church and her clergy, y'all? Sure they might be pretty or whatever, but I see them as an insult.
But that's just me.[/quote]

I realize that the original intent was to make light of the Cardinals a little bit; however, I don't see it as being really disrespectful but as being lighthearted.

Edited July 20, 2009 by Resurrexi

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1925171' date='Jul 19 2009, 09:13 PM']I didn't realise those were made to mock the cardinals. I thought they said there was that motivation in the past, but not with these necessarily? And then there is the polar opposite where cardinals are depicted as lifeless and boring. lawl. They can't make up their mind on how Catholics smell of elderberries. I guess that makes them wrong by logical accounts.[/quote]

Some of these were painted by Catholics.

I don't think that we should really get worked-up about these paintings.

I think that this is a better way to imagine cardinals than most people them today: as cold, unloving old men.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1925195' date='Jul 19 2009, 09:51 PM']Some of these were painted by Catholics.

I don't think that we should really get worked-up about these paintings.

I think that this is a better way to imagine cardinals than most people them today: as cold, unloving old men.[/quote]
So you'd prefer to view them as opulent, rich, old hypocrites living in the lap of luxury?
I'd prefer virtue to jollity.
Again, just me.

[Marie-Therese]

There were a few that I thought were great...like the cardinals playing with the animals. Those were pretty innocuous and I thought were cute.

The peacock one, and many that had liquor and laziness...those were tacky.

I tried to look at each picture on its own merit.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' post='1925198' date='Jul 19 2009, 09:53 PM']So you'd prefer to view them as opulent, rich, old hypocrites living in the lap of luxury?
I'd prefer virtue to jollity.
Again, just me.[/quote]

This is how I feel (from the article whose link I posted in the original post):

"Frankly, I look at these depictions of happy men — affluent though they may be — and I am comforted, for it is an unfortunate thing that we have become so Jansenistic that when we see material pleasures — especially in those who are too often illustrated as dour old men — we turn our mouths in frown."

Additionally, I would add that there is nothing unholy about living a pleasurable life. One can practice great virtue even if he does live la dolce vita, though it may be a good deal harder for the wealthy to be virtuous than the poor.

Edited July 20, 2009 by Resurrexi

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1925195' date='Jul 19 2009, 10:51 PM']Some of these were painted by Catholics.[/quote]

There are many dissenting Catholics out there who still call themselves Catholic. I'm not reassured. Could have been a dissenting Catholic.

I find the chess one interesting only because it has chess in it. Overall, they are satirizing the cardinals and I'm not amused.

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[Resurrexi]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' post='1925211' date='Jul 19 2009, 10:12 PM']There are many dissenting Catholics out there who still call themselves Catholic. I'm not reassured. Could have been a dissenting Catholic.

I find the chess one interesting only because it has chess in it. Overall, they are satirizing the cardinals and I'm not amused.

----------------
Now playing: [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/vertical+horizon/track/everything+you+want"]Vertical Horizon - Everything You Want[/url]
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Out of all the things in the world satirizing clergy, I would say that these paintings are among the least harmful.

I don't see what is so bad about happy old cardinals playing with their kitties, drinking tea, and smoking.

Edited July 20, 2009 by Resurrexi

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1925205' date='Jul 19 2009, 11:01 PM']This is how I feel (from the article I posted):

"Frankly, I look at these depictions of happy men — affluent though they may be — and I am comforted, for it is an unfortunate thing that we have become so Jansenistic that when we see material pleasures — especially in those who are too often illustrated as dour old men — we turn our mouths in frown."[/quote]
Yes, I read the article. I disagree with this. There are some, as was stated, that were harmless, like the one with the kitty. We're allowed, I'd say probably even encouraged, to take delight in all of God's creation - look no further for instance of this than our own Papa's former cats. However the compiler of these paintings also, in my opinion, had glasses that were a bit too rose-coloured with some of them.
[quote]Additionally, I would add that there is nothing unholy about living a pleasurable life and opulent life. One can practice great virtue even if he does live luxuriously, though it may be a good deal harder for the wealthy than the poor.[/quote]
Perhaps you aren't aware of the shade of meaning of opulence, but it is typically associated with being "over the top" with one's personal wealth and displays thereof. Those who live opulently typically do not live temperately.

But we are not going to see eye to eye on this one, because you're in love with the romanticized idea of clerical power being married to temporal power (as evidenced by your affinity for paintings of Cardinal-princes like these, the one with the crusader fellow or whatever the heck he was, and so forth), and I am quite fine with the separation of the two. I live in the modern age and think that the relative poverty that most priests and many other religious have to live in (the poverty-vowed among them obviously excluded, as their poverty is by "choice") is probably an opportunity for great penance and that to grow in holiness by helping them to realize that their reward is, indeed, not in this world. Look how much corruption had infiltrated the Church during the middle ages that ultimately caused (quite unfortunately) the protestant schisms and the Council of Trent - this was in the time of the hierarchy being steeped with temporal power and great wealth (and was a time to which I wouldn't care to return). Of course, this entire paragraph is primarily my opinion. One is free to be in love with any romantic idealisms that he so chooses.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' post='1925216' date='Jul 19 2009, 10:16 PM']Perhaps you aren't aware of the shade of meaning of opulence, but it is typically associated with being "over the top" with one's personal wealth and displays thereof. Those who live opulently typically do not live temperately.[/quote]

I am indeed aware of the word's connotations.

One can certainly live an over-the-top extravagant life and live a life of grace in Christ. That person will probably not end up practicing [i]heroic[/i] virtue, but he can still live a life of ordinary holiness.