cmotherofpirl Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Rexi did it ever occur to you that your atheist friend desperately wanted talked out of atheism??Did it occur to you that abandoning him means you are abandoning an opportunity given to you by God to convert someone? The people who argue the most are generally those who need us the most, and you yourself stated he kept bringing up the topic of religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varg Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1922478' date='Jul 17 2009, 02:48 AM']If you personally being friends with someone would cause scandal (in many situations it would not), then the best thing you can do for someone would be to pray for him. I have had a friend in the past whom I decided to avoid. He had become an adamant atheist who hated all religions, especially Catholicism (the religion of the school that he attended). I decided that his friendship was certainly not helping me grow in holiness. If anything, it would only lead me away from God. The only thing I could do to help him was pray for him. I decided to end our friendship rather than risk my own soul in trying to help the soul of another. Even if one saves 100,000 souls, what will it profit him if he loses his own?[/quote]Disgraceful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 i kinda agree with Varg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Well I can sort of understand where he is coming from - if one is weak in one's faith or not well-catechized it might not be a good idea to be friends with a well-educated atheist because he or she could possibly lead you away. I have seen this happen even with msyelf, hanging out with lukewarm Catholics, instead of me lighting them on fire their lukewarmness started to rub off on me. However it's also wrong to isolate ourselves and only talk to people whom we agree with. If I tried to do that I would have hardly any friends at all. Yes we are supposed to avoid occasions of sin, but we are not supposed to shun people, there is a difference... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philothea Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote]Is it morally acceptable for a Catholic to be friends with someone if his friendship with that person would be an unnecessary near occasion of sin to himself or needlessly cause scandal to others?[/quote] As presented, OF COURSE it's NOT acceptable to put yourself in unnecessary near occasions of sin, or cause needless scandal. However, I don't know that Resurrexi's examples are the best demonstration. Most Christians have no problem being friends with atheists or homosexuals or people who are, ah, deficient in the clothing department. OTOH, if you're struggling with faith, maybe spending time with the person who likes to hammer on your weak spots is not a great idea. I don't think anyone here would say a recovering alcoholic should hang out with their drinking buddies. Or that someone who'd engaged in an affair ought to, after breaking it off, become friends with their lover. Right? And scandal can be an issue, too -- though how someone dresses or whether they eat meat on Fridays is not a serious concern. [i]For the most part[/i] the teachings of the Catholic Church are well documented, publicly available, and under no dispute at all. But that's not universal -- how about socializing publicly with an abortion doctor? I doubt any of you would condone that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote name='Varg' post='1922674' date='Jul 17 2009, 08:37 AM']Disgraceful.[/quote] i agree. i have a good friend i can only really describe as rabidly athiest and anti christian and it was actions like that, the shunning, holier than thou sort of croutons that helped make him that way. i still hang out with him all the time, even though he explicitly hates all christians until proven otherwise. i think Resurexi should just go live on the top of a mountain, so he doesnt have to put up with us "lesser mortals" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote name='Maggie' post='1922684' date='Jul 17 2009, 10:55 AM']Well I can sort of understand where he is coming from - if one is weak in one's faith or not well-catechized it might not be a good idea to be friends with a well-educated atheist because he or she could possibly lead you away. I have seen this happen even with msyelf, hanging out with lukewarm Catholics, instead of me lighting them on fire their lukewarmness started to rub off on me. However it's also wrong to isolate ourselves and only talk to people whom we agree with. If I tried to do that I would have hardly any friends at all. Yes we are supposed to avoid occasions of sin, but we are not supposed to shun people, there is a difference...[/quote] Indeed. Though I think Rexi has proven himself to be rather well-catechized. I can see both sides here. My former ritual partner (from my time in the occult) is a militant atheist who is very hateful toward Christians. After I came back to the Church, it became very difficult and uncomfortable to be around him when he engaged in intense Christ-bashing. I had to distance myself from him, as much as it pained me to do...but in NO does that mean I'd ignore his calls, refuse to see him, or go out to dinner once in a while. That's counter-productive to spreading the Gospel, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavenseeker Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote name='Jesus_lol' post='1922720' date='Jul 17 2009, 12:32 PM']i agree. i have a good friend i can only really describe as rabidly athiest and anti christian and it was actions like that, the shunning, holier than thou sort of croutons that helped make him that way. i still hang out with him all the time, even though he explicitly hates all christians until proven otherwise. i think Resurexi should just go live on the top of a mountain, so he doesnt have to put up with us "lesser mortals"[/quote] bashing Rexi for his actions and criticizing him for acting holier than thou isnt the answer. in doing that you are acting holier than thou to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote name='heavenseeker' post='1922752' date='Jul 17 2009, 11:48 AM']bashing Rexi for his actions and criticizing him for acting holier than thou isnt the answer. in doing that you are acting holier than thou to him.[/quote] i am pretty sure im not holier than anybody... i was criticizing his xenophobia and attitudes towards friendship. with good reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1922596' date='Jul 17 2009, 08:18 AM']Rexi did it ever occur to you that your atheist friend desperately wanted talked out of atheism??Did it occur to you that abandoning him means you are abandoning an opportunity given to you by God to convert someone? The people who argue the most are generally those who need us the most, and you yourself stated he kept bringing up the topic of religion.[/quote] What Cmom said, and probably more. We are commanded to love and befriend those that need us. Sinful people are included. They all need God's love and compassion, and to shut them out of your life is to walk away from an incredible oppurtunity to share His love and message of grace with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1922498' date='Jul 17 2009, 03:05 AM']However, to just stay away because the person is a sinner, even an unrepentent one, seems, shall we say, less than charitable. Not to mention that it could cause that person to have a bad opinion of the Church, thus perhaps driving them farther away. Besides, I'd have to disassociate with most of my family and friends if I only chose to only associate with those that agreed with the Church. In actuality, though, by my continued association with them, some of them are beginning to ask questions about the Church, or seeing the Church in a more positive light. They know where I stand on things, and I don't push it, I just try to live in such a way as to be an example (though I fall at times, of course).[/quote] I agree completely with this. Thank goodness I didn't dissociate myself with some of my friends or family that were leading lives that were unholy or that could have possibly caused me to stumble a little. My family is now more involved in the Church, though I wish my sister would be involved in the Catholic Church but at least at this point she, her hubby, and her kids have a relationship with God. I had several friends in high school that would sleep around after many many many talks with them they stopped sleeping around, a few are even youth ministers now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varg Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Don't you realise that preaching to them and trying to convert them will just make them less likely to want to be friends with you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varg Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote name='Selah' post='1922786' date='Jul 17 2009, 01:27 PM']What Cmom said, and probably more. We are commanded to love and befriend those that need us. Sinful people are included. They all need God's love and compassion, and to shut them out of your life is to walk away from an incredible oppurtunity to share His love and message of grace with them.[/quote]So you're saying it's ok to be friends with someone for the sole purpose of trying to convert them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 yeah, i get very annoyed when friends actively try to get me to convert or something like that. lead by example and we will see but otherwise... what the heck is wrong with just being friends because you like them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 (edited) [quote]So you're saying it's ok to be friends with someone for the sole purpose of trying to convert them?[/quote] Is that what I said? No. I don't do the converting thing. If you did read what I wrote, you would have seen that I said that I believe people need love (which, as a Catholic, God's love being the purest and the love I strive to show others). People need friends, they need to be loved, they need to be told they mattered. To say that we can't be friends because I disagree with you is wrong. It's not what Jesus taught. I would never reject someone, EVER. I have friends who are gay, atheists, Wiccans, among other things. I have friends that go out and get drunk on the weekends. But you know what? I love them. Because they are genuinly sweet people and, while they do things I don't really agree with, I still love them, and I will always be there for them. If one day, they decide they want to become a Christian, fine. If not, I will never, ever, ever, EVER EVER leave them. My goodness, you guys read that wrong Edited July 17, 2009 by Selah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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