MissyP89 Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Well, Ora, I can kinda see where he's coming from. If someone is really dragging you down because of the way they live, it's not healthy for you to stick around. I've bailed on a few friendships for the same reasons. I'm talking about those friendships where you are just different, like my poly friend and I. Example...John is gay. I like John. John's sexuality isn't bringing me down. So...there's no reason for me to just stop conversing with him, or ignore him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 p.s. If this is how you treat people and consider differences of opinion in dogma unacceptable then how do you plan on living the rest of your life? Surrounded by other orthodox Catholics narrowing your view of the world? Or just by dumb atheists that you can easily prove wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote name='Kitty' post='1922481' date='Jul 17 2009, 01:51 AM']That's the Christian spirit. [/quote] It is. We should never endanger our own souls. One can really only control his own actions. If one endangers his own soul trying to help another, the end might be two souls in hell and none in heaven, rather than one in heaven and one in hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartjp2 Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1922478' date='Jul 17 2009, 02:48 AM']I decided to end our friendship rather than risk my own soul in trying to help the soul of another. Even if one saves 100,000 souls, what will it profit him if he loses his own?[/quote] That's low...and a little pathetic. Just a little. Seriously, how could an atheist make you lose faith? Atheists cling to doubt just as much as we cling to belief. They don't believe in anything, all they do is doubt. Often, even intellectual ones ignore simple facts about life and the universe. I think that if you continued to be friends with him to this day, you'd still be a good Catholic. Still, what you did is sad. That's why so many people are leaving our ranks, people who act like they don't care about them. Edited July 17, 2009 by iheartjp2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1922490' date='Jul 17 2009, 02:57 AM']It is. We should never endanger our own souls. One can really only control his own actions. If one endangers his own soul trying to help another, the end might be two souls in hell and none in heaven, rather than one in heaven and one in hell.[/quote] YOU'RE SO INSULAR. I find other peoples perceptions of the world incredibly interesting, even if they're different from mine. I mean if I didn't how could I survive with you, Rex ? Edited July 17, 2009 by OraProMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1922484' date='Jul 17 2009, 02:53 AM']I don't think that diversity of opinion in matters of dogma is acceptable. In my opinion (as I am sure you know), everyone should be Catholic. I would like to add that he's not just an atheist. He's also just about the smartest person whom I know. Stupid atheists pose no harm to most people. Intellectual atheists often do.[/quote] You ditched him because he's an intellectual atheist? I would think that, as a person who so passionately professes the faith as you do, that would be an even better reason to [i]remain[/i] in his life! Are you not strong enough in your faith to stand up for it in the face of someone with whom you can actually debate? I'm surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote name='OraProMe' post='1922489' date='Jul 17 2009, 01:56 AM']p.s. If this is how you treat people and consider differences of opinion in dogma unacceptable then how do you plan on living the rest of your life? Surrounded by other orthodox Catholics narrowing your view of the world? Or just by dumb atheists that you can easily prove wrong?[/quote] I certainly plan to surround myself with Catholics as much as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG45 Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote name='OraProMe' post='1922487' date='Jul 17 2009, 02:55 AM']But ditching a friend because they don't agree with you is inconceivable to me. I, and basically everyone I know, just don't operate that way.[/quote] I have to agree here. The people who have kept me closest to Christ have been non-Christians who worship multiple Gods. It was they who have proposed my reading the likes of Chesterton and Lewis. It was they who more often than not would broach the subject of Catholicism with me. It was they, who first pointed out to me the early church fathers, the roots of so many Catholic traditions (now I recognize as Sacred Tradition) that go back to the very beginnings of Christianity. Many were "former" Catholics who now no longer believed because they were cut off and shunned by people who would ridicule them for questioning their faith. People whose actions in cutting them off abetted in their own spiraling doubts and changing of mindset unto the point where they found the so-called "truth" of multiple Gods. And after Easter Vigil, the majority of Christian friends I had before PM no longer speak to me. After Easter Vigil, these Pagans that I should, under Res's logic, cut off, have done nothing but congratulate me and wish me well. Having stated that they feel I've drawn so much closer to Christ by embracing the Church that has the historical proof and is so much more Biblically sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitty Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1922484' date='Jul 17 2009, 01:53 AM']I don't think that diversity of opinion in matters of dogma is acceptable. In my opinion (as I am sure you know), everyone should be Catholic.[/quote] Resurrexi, I don't understand you. You make these broad bold statements all the time like "everyone should be Catholic" and yet you shrink away from the idea of being a strong individual in real life and helping someone out even if they're not Catholic. That is NOT a Christian attitude. As long as you're strong and you keep your own morals up, your soul won't be "in danger". Do you seriously think that being friends with a hardcore atheist is going to magically turn you atheist? If so you should excommunicate yourself because magic is evil and Satanic, of course. Jesus was Jewish. He dined with sinners and scum. He did not force everyone on earth to become Christian. He said "pick up your cross and follow me." And he meant EVERYONE. Not just Catholics, only orthodox Catholics, only Catholics who were friends with sinless people. I think you need to look up from your theology textbooks once in a while and look at the Christ of your own religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Yes, Missy, I can kinda see the reasoning there. If a friendship is truly causing you to sin, then perhaps it is best to stay away. However, to just stay away because the person is a sinner, even an unrepentent one, seems, shall we say, less than charitable. Not to mention that it could cause that person to have a bad opinion of the Church, thus perhaps driving them farther away. Besides, I'd have to disassociate with most of my family and friends if I only chose to only associate with those that agreed with the Church. In actuality, though, by my continued association with them, some of them are beginning to ask questions about the Church, or seeing the Church in a more positive light. They know where I stand on things, and I don't push it, I just try to live in such a way as to be an example (though I fall at times, of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1922495' date='Jul 17 2009, 03:02 AM']I certainly plan to surround myself with Catholics as much as possible.[/quote] Does that mean you're moving to Ave Maria, FL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 [quote name='MissyP89' post='1922499' date='Jul 17 2009, 02:05 AM']Does that mean you're moving to Ave Maria, FL? [/quote] Malta seems like a nice place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartjp2 Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 (edited) I can't help but think that one day when this former friend is arguing with someone, he's going to bring you up, Resurrexi. Just more proof that those Christians are all holier-than-thou, unfriendly, and not worth befriending. You gave someone potential reasoning to lead someone who may be in the same place that he was astray. Nice. Edited July 17, 2009 by iheartjp2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marie-Therese Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Ora, glad to see you. Haven't seen your name in a while, I missed you. Rex...you know I love you, but don't you think that this topic tends dangerously towards excessive scrupulosity? I think the best example to be given by Christians is to do as Christ did (for He came not for the righteous, but for sinners). It is one thing to make plain your feeling about a friend's sinful behavior in a loving and charitable way. It is quite another to shun a sinner. Your title refers to "sinful friendship." If a friendship is a near occasion of sin for you on a personal level, by all means, you should examine the situation and determine what the course of action is which would be most prudent. However, friendship with a sinner is not "sinful friendship." If that is the case, as others here rightly stated, we are all in a big heap o' trouble. Would the fact that others were scandalized by your friendship with a public sinner be more grave than your public example of the love of Christ? I think not, IMHO. So long as you keep your relationships within their proper bounds and your personal behavior is without reproach, then I think the bigger issue is concentrating on your own walk. To me, neglecting to minister to the needs of the sinner would be a much graver offense. Christ plainly said that others would hate us for His sake. Rex, love, do you ask this as a serious question to which you have doubts about a good answer, or are you acting as l'agent provocateur? Intellectual curiousity is good, but think of Kipling and how the elephant got his trunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 You're not as smart or nice as I originally thought. ): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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