Abortion.

[rhetoricfemme]

[quote]Here's a hypothetical scenario: a woman gets raped. She becomes pregnant but decides to keep the baby, despite the fact that it was concieved through a malicious and dispicable act and she has no idea who the father is. Evertime she sees her child she is reminded of the time she was raped. The child is likely to hate itself once it finds out how it was concieved. Is this right? No, it isn't.[/quote]
No, it's not right that the mother was raped. Perhaps this hypothetical mother would consider adoption? Or maybe she would see the whole situation as a blessing in disguise, and this child is something beautiful wrought out of the malicious and despicable act?

[quote]And what of underage mothers or mothers who aren't financially apt or responsible enough to be parents? The child has a miserable life and so does the mother/parents. Women who get pregnant whilst still in education will have to sacrifice their social lives and their education. This, in my opinion, is not right.[/quote]
My sister got pregnant when she was 16. While obviously not a desired situation, her attention turned away from the partying and trouble making that was commonplace in her particular social circle. She finished her schooling. She's worked for the same company for about 16 years now and does very well. In her younger years, while she certainly wasn't "financially apt," she went on every assistance program she could get her hands on. She even found time to volunteer at a domestic violence shelter. Her son, my nephew, is 19 years old now, and has had a very loving and fulfilling life. He and his mother have all the love and respect in the world for one another. Not to mention my sister is now in her mid-30s and has a major appreciation for the time and place for sillyness and ease-of-mind to prevail.

So while it certainly wasn't easy, it doesn't always hold true that the teenager who gets pregnant will be miserable and bitter by default. And sacrifice is a character-builder, no? Through sacrifice we learn that life is not all about us, and the things we feel entitled to are actually luxuries that we've always been told are rights instead of privileges.

[quote]What "assumptions"?[/quote]
Every situation you present is an assumption. Sure, things could always take those sad routes, but it's not a guarantee. Life is what we make of it, and I think we could make a lot more of it when we realize that it's not about us. And if the pregnant woman in these dire circumstances finds herself unable or unwilling to take on the responsibilities, then there is always adoption.

We're not entitled to anything more than the the life God has given us, so what gives us the right to take away the life of another, whether or not they are yet to be born?

Edited July 16, 2009 by rhetoricfemme

[tinytherese]

[quote name='Varg' post='1921771' date='Jul 16 2009, 03:50 PM']Here's a hypothetical scenario: a woman gets raped. She becomes pregnant but decides to keep the baby, despite the fact that it was concieved through a malicious and dispicable act and she has no idea who the father is. Evertime she sees her child she is reminded of the time she was raped. The child is likely to hate itself once it finds out how it was concieved. Is this right? No, it isn't.



Discuss[/quote]

It is indeed a great sorrow when a woman is raped, but the baby should not be the one punished because of what his or her father did to their mother. Amazingly, it's been found that when women go into counseling after getting raped and having an abortion after getting pregnant from it that they go into therapy not for the rape but for the abortion.

Even if a child's life is difficult it is better for them to live than die. I believe in the other "a" word-- adoption.


There's this one very beautiful pro-life song that I know of. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCmLmZDpB4I"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCmLmZDpB4I[/url]

My avatar and signiture sure do apply to this topic.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Varg' post='1921839' date='Jul 16 2009, 06:17 PM']What's the Catholic view on euthanasia? I'm just curious[/quote]
We aren't into murder at either end of life.

[dairygirl4u2c]

rape im sympathetic to.

the justification i find for abortion generally, 'it's my body', doesn't work generally but maybe to rape. see, if they chose to have sex, they assumed the risk of getting pregnant. If you got in an accident, and it was your fault, and someone was suddenly attached to you-- any reasonable person would say you wait the few months it takes to get you off.
i remember it said before that if you woke up one day and found someone attached to your body, you'd be entitled to remove them- this might work with rape, but doesn't work generally.

the lack of personhood thing is another matter, though. there's certain deferences of judgment that could be argued either way, but this applies accross the board, not just rape. though i guess more dference could be argued with rape. (given the uncertainty, how should deferences be gratned, to what decision makers, arguments)(if "it's my body' implies these deferendce arguments, i'm more sympathetic to the arguments. but most don't imply that. actually, most don't know what they think when they say that- most who would say that, are ignorant, to put it bluntly, as a matter of common experience on my part.

Edited July 17, 2009 by dairygirl4u2c

[rhetoricfemme]

[url="http://www.ehd.org/movies.php?mov_id=29&cell=4"]The Endowment for Human Development[/url] website has a short video clip for each stage of pregnancy. I think it speaks volumes, considering how even in the early stages of six weeks, you can't deny the baby's human-like qualities. Too many people try to disconnect themselves from that fact.

If nothing else, it's fun to watch.

[CatherineM]

The problem with the rape exception is that if that is a requirement, every woman who wanted an abortion could say they have been raped. Planned Parenthood already coaches underage girls to lie about the age of their boyfriends, so that would be an easy next step for them.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Varg' post='1921823' date='Jul 16 2009, 02:57 PM']There are laws restricting how long you can leave the pregnancy before having an abortion, so it would be a foetus not a child.[/quote]
[quote]2) “We now record fetal heartbeats at 14 days post-conception. We record fetal brainwaves at 39 days post-conception. And I don’t expect you to answer this, but I do expect you to pay attention to it as you contemplate these big issues. We have this schizophrenic rule of the law where we have defined death as the absence of those, but we refuse to define life as the presence of those.”
— – Sen.Tom Coburn, speaking to Supreme Court nominee Judge Sonia Sotomayor at confirmation hearing, July 15, 2009.

[url="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/16/us/politics/16confirm.html?_r=1"]http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/16/us/polit...nfirm.html?_r=1[/url][/quote]


[quote]A new study found that unborn babies may start to develop memories as early as thirty weeks into a pregnancy, but ABC’s “Good Morning America” ignored the study’s potential impact on the abortion debate, especially concerning late term abortion.

Reporter Sharyn Alfonsi’s July 15 segment covered the pivotal study without even mentioning abortion. Anchor Chris Cuomo attempted to broach the issue during a follow-up interview but fell short.

Alfonsi touted the study, “Day by day, a fetus goes through remarkable changes. By 30 weeks, opening and closing their eyes. Making facial expressions. And now, a new study reveals, forming memories. Yep, barely three pounds, but already able to remember. For the study, researchers used a fetal monitor to make a buzzing sound against a mother's belly. The noise and vibrations startle the fetus and it typically reacts by moving. But with repeated applications of the buzzing the fetus learns its okay and does not have to react. And four weeks later, when the fetus is buzzed again, many don't react at all, because researchers say they now remember the sound.”
[url="http://www.americanpapist.com/2009/07/study-unborn-babies-can-form-memories.html"]http://www.americanpapist.com/2009/07/stud...m-memories.html[/url][/quote]

[tinytherese]

The following is taken from [url="http://www.chastity.com/chastity/index.php?id=7&entryid=310"]http://www.chastity.com/chastity/index.php...amp;entryid=310[/url].

Q. Is it okay for a girl to have an abortion if she was raped?

A. A few years ago in the former Yugoslavia, a group of soldiers broke into a convent and raped a nun named Sister Lucy Vertrusc. As a result of the rape, she became pregnant. Sister Lucy was faced with a decision: do I keep this child, whose face will be an icon of the man who raped me? She chose life and said, “I will be a mother. The child will be mine and no one else’s. . . . Someone has to begin to break the chain of hatred that has always destroyed our countries. And so, I will teach my child only one thing: love. This child, born of violence, will be a witness along with me that the only greatness that gives honor to a human being is forgiveness.”[1] She knew that the baby did not deserve the death penalty for the crime his father committed.

Women who abort children who were conceived by rape often say that it took longer to recover from the abortion than from the rape. In general, post-abortive women often experience depression, and they are six times as likely to commit suicide than women who gave birth.[2] When a woman has been raped, has she not suffered enough emotional pain? Will she be comforted when the suffering of the rape is compounded with the guilt of knowing that she took her child’s life? Has she not been violated enough? Now is the time when she needs to be supported by and immersed in love, so that some good can come from the tragedy of the rape.

Aside from the emotional consequences, when a woman gets an abortion, she faces numerous health risks, such as perforation of the uterus, septic shock, sterility, and sometimes even death. This is no way to treat a woman who has suffered enough because of rape.

If you or someone you know is pregnant and unmarried, call 1-800-866-4666 to find a local crisis pregnancy center that can help. The people who work for these organizations will offer hope, healing, encouragement, and practical support—not to mention plenty of love.

Also, realize that thousands of couples suffer from infertility, and must wait years to adopt a newborn. So, by saying yes to life, a woman with an unexpected pregnancy can bring a lifetime of joy to such couples.
____________
[1]. Sister Lucy Vertrusc, letter to religious superior. As reported by Going the Distance, Envoy, January–February 2000, 7.
[2]. D.M Fergusson, et al., “Abortion in Young Women and Subsequent Mental Health,” Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry 47:1 (January 2006): 16–24; Mika Gissler, et al., “Suicides After Pregnancy in Finland, 1987–94: Register Linkage Study,” British Medical Journal 313 (December 1996): 1431–1434.

[cmotherofpirl]

From Lil Red's post"
QUOTE
2) “We now record fetal heartbeats at 14 days post-conception. We record fetal brainwaves at 39 days post-conception. And I don’t expect you to answer this, but I do expect you to pay attention to it as you contemplate these big issues. We have this schizophrenic rule of the law where we have defined death as the absence of those, but we refuse to define life as the presence of those.”
— – Sen.Tom Coburn, speaking to Supreme Court nominee Judge Sonia Sotomayor at confirmation hearing, July 15, 2009.

THanks Red!!!
This man is my new hero!!!!!!

[Varg]

[quote name='Selah' post='1921856' date='Jul 16 2009, 04:40 PM']As far as people go-we're against it.

As far as animals go-well, I'm against it [/quote]So you'd rather that someone suffered than had a quick and painless death and (according to you guys) went up into heaven and had a happy picnic time with Jesus and all his clouds? (this is about euthanasia, not abortion in case you're wondering)

[OraProMe]

The very word "abortion" makes me feel queezy.

[Varg]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1922005' date='Jul 16 2009, 07:51 PM']We aren't into murder at either end of life.[/quote]EUTHANISIA IS NOT MURDER. If someone wants to die then let them

Edited July 17, 2009 by Varg

[Varg]

[quote name='OraProMe' post='1922617' date='Jul 17 2009, 07:53 AM']The very word "abortion" makes me feel queezy.[/quote]Like I said, I can understand that

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Varg' post='1922610' date='Jul 17 2009, 09:49 AM']So you'd rather that someone suffered than had a quick and painless death and (according to you guys) went up into heaven and had a happy picnic time with Jesus and all his clouds? (this is about euthanasia, not abortion in case you're wondering)[/quote]
We don't have the right to murder people at either end of life. Suffering can usually be controlled.

[Varg]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1922621' date='Jul 17 2009, 07:55 AM']We don't have the right to murder people at either end of life. Suffering can usually be controlled.[/quote]Denying the right to die is one of the cuellists things a human can do