Cohabitation Before Engagement = Higher Divorce

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1926577' date='Jul 21 2009, 01:20 PM']+J.M.J.+

you are the best.

btw, our marriage prep mentioned nothing about living together, or asked us to separate/live as brother/sister, or anything.[/quote]


You're pretty cool too.

I think our marriage prep was unusual, probably because it was at our Cathedral and they are supposed to set a good example. From talking to other people, I am pretty sure not every parish makes as big a deal about it as our Cathedral did.

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1925949' date='Jul 20 2009, 10:16 PM']+J.M.J+
to respond to both of you:

any number of things increases the chances of divorce. one spouse developing an addiction; a family member getting a disease and having to take care of them; one spouse converting to a different religion (or reverting back to their previous one); having multiples (twins and the like); etc. i'd like to see statistics on marriages like that too before stating that only cohabitation increases the chance of divorce.[/quote]

Okay, I don't believe I or anyone else said that "only cohabitation increases the chance of divorce." There are other reasons relationships and marriages fail....I don't deny that at all. However this thread is about "Cohabitation Before Engagement = Higher Divorce" which doesn't mean it's the sole reason for higher divorce but it just argues that it is a reason for a higher rate of divorce nonetheless.

I really don't mean anything against you. To you and your husband's credit, you are two people who have been able to "beat the statistics" so to speak. However please stop misstating what is being said or argued.

Pax

----------------
Now playing: [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/coldplay/track/spies"]Coldplay - Spies[/url]
via [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/"]FoxyTunes[/url]

[tinytherese]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' post='1926765' date='Jul 21 2009, 04:47 PM']Okay, I don't believe I or anyone else said that "only cohabitation increases the chance of divorce." There are other reasons relationships and marriages fail....I don't deny that at all. However this thread is about "Cohabitation Before Engagement = Higher Divorce" which doesn't mean it's the sole reason for higher divorce but it just argues that it is a reason for a higher rate of divorce nonetheless.

I really don't mean anything against you. To you and your husband's credit, you are two people who have been able to "beat the statistics" so to speak. However please stop misstating what is being said or argued.

Pax

----------------
Now playing: [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/coldplay/track/spies"]Coldplay - Spies[/url]
via [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/"]FoxyTunes[/url][/quote]


Thank you eagle_eye. Like I've said before, having conversations online tends to be more difficult than having ones in person.

I think that there has been some confusion over this, but I thank you Lil Red and Terra for your points that you brought up. I see now that I was misinterpreting what you were saying earlier Lil Red, thinking that you were saying, "My sister and I have lasting and successful marriages so to heck with the research findings. Don't listen to their nonsense. You can live together before marriage if you want, just have good reasons behind it."

I also read the post which said that a lot of people see cohabitating as what appears to be a logical step to take before marriage as meaning, "Well as long as you're not trying to use each other living with someone before you marry them is perfectly morally acceptable. God wouldn't mind that so don't you." Again, that was me misinterpreting. I am sorry.

When I mentioned the statistics in my big long post I was thinking that if a couple were to do all of the research behind cohabitation both from a secular perspective and and then with full knowledge of the findings to live together anyway that it would not be a wise decision as they would be intentionally putting their relationship, hearts, and souls at risk. Not that it would be impossible for the two of them to stay together but their odds wouldn't be as good as a couple that would wait until marriage to live together.

On the other hand if a couple was unaware of the findings and what the full Church teachings on the matter were, even having misconceptions on the matter and lived together I see that as different because they didn't know better and probably weren't trying to hurt their relationship. Not that that justifies what they did, but their situation is not the same as the first kind of couple. If that were the case, then no scaring them with statistics and implying that their marriage is very likely to fail would definitely not be the way to go (not that that's the way to handle the first kind of couple but I think that you get what I mean.) That would do them far more harm than good. A matter such as this is very delicate and can be handled in different ways depending on their situation, temperaments, etc.

And I want to make it clear that I am not trying to judge couples that cohabitate. We as followers of Christ are called to judge [i]moral actions [/i]but not people. What I am judging is cohabitation-- not that I'm saying that cohabitating automatically means that a couple will divorce but that overall it isn't a good idea.

I hope that that ends the squabble and that there will be peace on the thread.

[tinytherese]

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
[quote name='tinytherese' post='1927989' date='Jul 22 2009, 01:37 AM']I think that there has been some confusion over this, but I thank you Lil Red and Terra for your points that you brought up. I see now that I was misinterpreting what you were saying earlier Lil Red, thinking that you were saying, "My sister and I have lasting and successful marriages so to heck with the research findings. Don't listen to their nonsense. You can live together before marriage if you want, just have good reasons behind it."[/quote]
i specifically said in my first post that it is not the way to go:
[quote]i would just like to say that [b]even though cohabitation before marriage is not the ideal,[/b] people can (and do) make those marriages work, especially those who 'revert' or convert after marriage. my husband and i are an example of that. so are my sister and her husband (25+ years of marriage). [b]no, it is not the ideal.[/b] but to make a blanket statement that those who live together before marriage are doomed to eventually divorce is just plain wrong.[/quote]

[quote name='tinytherese' post='1927989' date='Jul 22 2009, 01:37 AM']I also read the post which said that a lot of people see cohabitating as what appears to be a logical step to take before marriage as meaning, "Well as long as you're not trying to use each other living with someone before you marry them is perfectly morally acceptable. God wouldn't mind that so don't you." Again, that was me misinterpreting. I am sorry.[/quote] okay

[quote name='tinytherese' post='1927989' date='Jul 22 2009, 01:37 AM']When I mentioned the statistics in my big long post I was thinking that if a couple were to do all of the research behind cohabitation both from a secular perspective and and then with full knowledge of the findings to live together anyway that it would not be a wise decision as they would be intentionally putting their relationship, hearts, and souls at risk. Not that it would be impossible for the two of them to stay together but their odds wouldn't be as good as a couple that would wait until marriage to live together.

On the other hand if a couple was unaware of the findings and what the full Church teachings on the matter were, even having misconceptions on the matter and lived together I see that as different because they didn't know better and probably weren't trying to hurt their relationship. Not that that justifies what they did, but their situation is not the same as the first kind of couple. If that were the case, then no scaring them with statistics and implying that their marriage is very likely to fail would definitely not be the way to go (not that that's the way to handle the first kind of couple but I think that you get what I mean.) That would do them far more harm than good. A matter such as this is very delicate and can be handled in different ways depending on their situation, temperaments, etc.[/quote] i think this is what Terra was saying too.

[quote name='tinytherese' post='1927989' date='Jul 22 2009, 01:37 AM']And I want to make it clear that I am not trying to judge couples that cohabitate. We as followers of Christ are called to judge [i]moral actions [/i]but not people. What I am judging is cohabitation-- not that I'm saying that cohabitating automatically means that a couple will divorce but that overall it isn't a good idea.[/quote]agreed.

[quote name='tinytherese' post='1927989' date='Jul 22 2009, 01:37 AM']I hope that that ends the squabble and that there will be peace on the thread. [/quote] i wasn't taking personal offense. just like to debate.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1928394' date='Jul 22 2009, 03:18 PM'] i wasn't taking personal offense. just like to debate.[/quote]


I think we tend to think that disagreement or discussion is a bad thing. I really think it can be valuable for all involved as long as we're all open to learning and growing.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1929076' date='Jul 22 2009, 09:46 PM']

I think we tend to think that disagreement or discussion is a bad thing. I really think it can be valuable for all involved as long as we're all open to learning and growing.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
yup. i learn a lot from discussions like these and others.

[marielapin]

When we went through marriage counseling, our priest knew we were not sexually active or cohabitating (we were both living in dorms, making cohabitation impossible), however I know he did ask everyone else this. I know he had one couple that he refused to marry because they refused to stop being sexually active or stop cohabitating. He told them that if they were not even interested in learning what the church had to say and why they shouldn't have an interesting in marrying in the church.

[CatherineM]

The number 1 cause of divorce is financial issues.

[VoTeckam]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1929760' date='Jul 23 2009, 06:21 PM']The number 1 cause of divorce is financial issues.[/quote]


Sheesh.... that part of the vows doesn't even require any critical thinking....

[Angel*Star]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1926527' date='Jul 21 2009, 12:18 PM']+J.M.J.+
do you think most couples, even Catholic couples, 'discern' marriage? i don't. they just assume it's a logical step when you are dating.

1. dating
2. living together
3. marriage.

btw, i know you love Pure Love Club, i like their stuff too, but i know i'm not the only one who hates document dumps. [/quote]


And one may say just because "everyone is doing it" doesn't make it okay or better. Personally, I hate going to a store and the sales person saying, "Most people buy this product". I am not most people and the other product may be more to my liking. Just because everyone is assuming the logical step to marriage includes living together does not make it so. If that were true, few marriages would end in a divorce. Now, that is not to say living together helps marriages, because I believe that not to be the case. However, there are probably other things that are not healthy for relationships going on that don't help marriages as well while the couple are living together. We looked to the Church and followed Her ways because at the time we were in our 20's and the Church is a lot older and wiser than we were and She still is. Maybe I don't understand the reasons why, but as a Catholic I follow Her teachings or I will leave. I also try to learn and understand and so far the Church has been right on and I am humbled and grateful for following the Church.

[princessgianna]

I think doing something like that upon enetering the reception could be really cool. Though not for Mass.!

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Angel*Star' post='1930163' date='Jul 23 2009, 08:59 PM']And one may say just because "everyone is doing it" doesn't make it okay or better. Personally, I hate going to a store and the sales person saying, "Most people buy this product". I am not most people and the other product may be more to my liking. Just because everyone is assuming the logical step to marriage includes living together does not make it so. If that were true, few marriages would end in a divorce. Now, that is not to say living together helps marriages, because I believe that not to be the case. However, there are probably other things that are not healthy for relationships going on that don't help marriages as well while the couple are living together. We looked to the Church and followed Her ways because at the time we were in our 20's and the Church is a lot older and wiser than we were and She still is. Maybe I don't understand the reasons why, but as a Catholic I follow Her teachings or I will leave. I also try to learn and understand and so far the Church has been right on and I am humbled and grateful for following the Church.[/quote]
srsly. what is wrong with people not reading what i wrote? i never said it was okay. i was giving some reasoning to why it is probably done.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1930518' date='Jul 24 2009, 09:21 AM']srsly. what is wrong with people not reading what i wrote? i never said it was okay. i was giving some reasoning to why it is probably done.[/quote]
I got you were doing that.

I think it's valuable to understand why people behave in a certain way, so that you can more effectively address a problem. I've found, in my experience with people, that "The Church says don't do it" is typically not a strong motivator for people who don't have the same faith background I do. Of course, the people who do have the same faith background I do are typically not living together prior to marriage.

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
i am sorry if my post earlier this morning was *uhm* a little cranky. it wasn't a good morning, and i should know better than to post when i'm not having a good day.