Cohabitation Before Engagement = Higher Divorce

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1925841' date='Jul 20 2009, 06:38 PM']+J.M.J.+
...but to make a blanket statement that those who live together before marriage are doomed to eventually divorce is just plain wrong.[/quote]

I don't think anyone is saying that if you live together you are guaranteed to divorce. I don't remember seeing that anywhere actually. What the point is that if you do live together before getting married, then the chances of a divorce later increase by a decent amount.

[tinytherese]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1925841' date='Jul 20 2009, 06:38 PM']+J.M.J.+
i would just like to say that even though cohabitation before marriage is not the ideal, people can (and do) make those marriages work, especially those who 'revert' or convert after marriage. my husband and i are an example of that. so are my sister and her husband (25+ years of marriage). no, it is not the ideal. but to make a blanket statement that those who live together before marriage are doomed to eventually divorce is just plain wrong.[/quote]

I'm sorry.Good for you and your sister. Let me clarify. It makes the marriage more of a challenge if a couple lives together beforehand. There are those who cohabitate and make it last but the odds are definitely not in their favor.

And in the case of my second cousin there's more to her story than what I previously mentioned. I hate to sound judgmental but my mom knows the situation more than I do and she says that she and her fiance are just doing this to get gifts and probably to get their family and friends off of their backs so that they don't have to get asked "so are you two going to get married or what?" anymore. Sadly, she *might* also be marrying him so that she doesn't have to find a job. Her fiance provides and she usually drops her son off with her mom so that she can go off to the spa and anywhere else so that she doesn't have to take care of him that much. Sure, asking her mom to help her with him itself isn't bad but if it's to avoid her responsibility as a mother and to go off and to do whatever she wants as if her child is a burden is not okay.

Well anyway, God will take care of it. I pray that she and her husband come to the fullness of truth in living out their Catholic faith as you have.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='eagle_eye222001' post='1925867' date='Jul 20 2009, 05:25 PM']What the point is that if you do live together before getting married, then the chances of a divorce later increase by a decent amount.[/quote]
[quote name='tinytherese' post='1925869' date='Jul 20 2009, 05:29 PM']I'm sorry.Good for you and your sister. Let me clarify. It makes the marriage more of a challenge if a couple lives together beforehand. There are those who cohabitate and make it last but the odds are definitely not in their favor.[/quote]
+J.M.J+
to respond to both of you:

any number of things increases the chances of divorce. one spouse developing an addiction; a family member getting a disease and having to take care of them; one spouse converting to a different religion (or reverting back to their previous one); having multiples (twins and the like); etc. i'd like to see statistics on marriages like that too before stating that only cohabitation increases the chance of divorce.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1925949' date='Jul 20 2009, 10:16 PM']+J.M.J+
to respond to both of you:

any number of things increases the chances of divorce. one spouse developing an addiction; a family member getting a disease and having to take care of them; one spouse converting to a different religion (or reverting back to their previous one); having multiples (twins and the like); etc. i'd like to see statistics on marriages like that too before stating that only cohabitation increases the chance of divorce.[/quote]
I agree with this (although my guess in this particular study would be that they did control for at least some other forms of marital stress before pinpointing cohabitation prior to engagement as a contributing factor in divorce).

One thing the (short) article suggested is that the reason for cohabitation seems to be key. My guess would be that people who cohabit because they see it as the next logical step in a progression toward marriage would, in my guess, be more likely to stick it out. People entering into it as a means of "testing the waters" or for convenience/saving $$, would be far more likely to have problems later, in my opinion. The first demonstrates a lack of understanding of marriage, where the second is more along the lines of "using" one another.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1925954' date='Jul 20 2009, 08:26 PM']The first demonstrates a lack of understanding of marriage, where the second is more along the lines of "using" one another.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
good point.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1925949' date='Jul 20 2009, 10:16 PM']having multiples (twins and the like);[/quote]

?????

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1925958' date='Jul 20 2009, 10:28 PM']?????[/quote]
Multiple births is extremely stressful on a marriage. One child is stressful. More than that, and no one gets sleep. One of the guys working for us has fraternal twins, and he said that for about the first 18 months of their lives he and his wife were grateful to get more than 2 hours of sleep a night. The kids would tag team off each other. The first would go to sleep and the second would wake up. They're now five, and much easier to handle, but it was a hellish 18 months. That's hard on any marriage.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1925964' date='Jul 20 2009, 08:30 PM']Multiple births is extremely stressful on a marriage. One child is stressful. More than that, and no one gets sleep. One of the guys working for us has fraternal twins, and he said that for about the first 18 months of their lives he and his wife were grateful to get more than 2 hours of sleep a night. The kids would tag team off each other. The first would go to sleep and the second would wake up. They're now five, and much easier to handle, but it was a hellish 18 months. That's hard on any marriage.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
what she said. added to that stress with fertility treatments and for many marriages it is a recipe for disaster.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1925968' date='Jul 20 2009, 10:33 PM']+J.M.J.+
what she said. added to that stress with fertility treatments and for many marriages it is a recipe for disaster.[/quote]


I know couples who have come to the brink of divorce while dealing with infertility issues, and a couple who've gone over. Honestly I can completely understand that. Children are stressful even if you don't have them.

A different area of marital stress is finances. I know bankruptcy attorneys who've told me they often end up referring clients for counseling or to divorce lawyers because they can't handle the money stresses. Sometimes a bankruptcy can be a great thing for a marriage, because it relieves what has been months or years of financial stress. That really wears on a marriage, particularly if one or both partners is less-than-adept at managing money.

[Norseman82]

From the USCCB (especially note part 1, sections 4 and 5):

[url="http://www.usccb.org/laity/marriage/cohabiting.shtml"]http://www.usccb.org/laity/marriage/cohabiting.shtml[/url]

[tinytherese]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1926094' date='Jul 20 2009, 11:53 PM']From the USCCB (especially note part 1, sections 4 and 5):

[url="http://www.usccb.org/laity/marriage/cohabiting.shtml"]http://www.usccb.org/laity/marriage/cohabiting.shtml[/url][/quote]

That's a great article.

[tinytherese]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1925949' date='Jul 20 2009, 10:16 PM']any number of things increases the chances of divorce.[/quote]

Peace be with you Lil Red. I don't mean to offend anyone.

That's true. Many factors increase the chances of divorce, but why add another when it is unnecessary and avoidable? Sure there are couples that cohabitate that fortunately stay together and have happy marriages, but they are a small minority. Personally if I am in fact called to marriage, I'd rather do everything [i]in my power [/i] (and with the help of God) to avoid factors that would increase my liklihood of getting divorced. Sure, I cannot completely avoid every single factor that can lead to divorce because some factors are outside of my control, but I want to do what I can to decrease the liklihood. When something is placed at as high of a risk as cohabitation is, I don't want to take that chance. "Okay honey, let's pray that we're in that 22% that makes it." Why make discerning marriage even harder for a couple, especially in these rough times where the family is greatly under attack?

These snippets are taken from the Pure Love Club website. It's in the question and answer section where a girl asks if she should move in with her boyfriend. She's having doubts about it and has already told him the high statistics of divorce for those who live together befoer marriage and he told her that they shouldn't base their relationship off of statstics.

"You mentioned that he said you shouldn't base your relationship on statistics. That's right. We should base it on wisdom, smart decisions, and the will of God. Moving in together is a poor decision that goes against the will of God. That's definitely not something to base a relationship on. Besides, do you know anyone on earth whose relationship is "based on statistics?" No, but I know lots of people who use statistics to make wise choices.

For example, what if I said, '99% of the people who jump off the building will die. But, I can't base everything on statistics, so I'll go for it.'

Source: [url="http://www.chastity.com/chastity/index.php?id=7&entryid=242"]http://www.chastity.com/chastity/index.php...amp;entryid=242[/url]

True love is doing what is best for one's beloved even to the point of sacrifice. I've never heard anyone successfully make the case that cohabitation is what is best for a marriage, but have only found research that shows the risks that one puts oneself and one's beloved through by doing it. Does this mean that couples who live together don't love each other at all? No, but they are not loving each other as they were meant to. Love may in fact be genuinely present, but it is not in the fullness of love-- their love is not perfected. Pope John Paul II said that the more responsibility felt towards another the [i]more[/i] love there is present (emphasis mine.) Marriage works, in fact it works at its best in Christ-- the ultimate lover who gave His very life for his bride The Church. And with that comes following His commands.

Some say that cohabitating before marriage is not the ideal, but why settle for second, third, or fourth best when you can have [i]the[/i] best?

It's not impossible for a couple that is cohabitating or who cohabitated before marriage to have a beautiful and solid relationship. They can learn to love each other as Christ intended, but it'll take work. All of those tending to an engaged couple that is cohabitating are called to use wisdom, compassion, mercy, charity, patience, understanding, consideration, and to look at each of them case by case-- never witholding from them the love of Christ that they profess just as the article that Norseman cited mentions. It may even be wise for a cohabitating couple to undergoe premarital counseling from a solid Catholic therapist.


Ave Maria and Pax Christi!

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
do you think most couples, even Catholic couples, 'discern' marriage? i don't. they just assume it's a logical step when you are dating.

1. dating
2. living together
3. marriage.

btw, i know you love Pure Love Club, i like their stuff too, but i know i'm not the only one who hates document dumps.

[Sojourner]

From the discussions we had with marriage prep people when we got married, we got the sense that a significant portion of couples are living together (we were not). It was one of the first questions the deacon asked us, and our mentor couple said better than half the couples they see are in that situation. Where practicable, couples were asked to separate. At the least, they were asked to live as brother and sister until after the wedding. We got the sense that marriage prep staff had to do a lot of counseling about why cohabitation is not a good idea -- and these are couples where at least one person is Catholic.

I think it is easy to pick up a study like this and use it as a stick to beat people into understanding the truth of Catholic teachings on marriage. While cohabitation undoubtedly presents difficulties in many cases, there is nothing like a 99% chance that couples that cohabitate first are going to divorce. And, many couples simply do not know any different. The steps Red has mentioned are perhaps now the most common route couples take. It is "normal" (albeit not normative).

[quote]They can learn to love each other as Christ intended, but it'll take work.[/quote]
This quote really rubbed me the wrong way. I know a lot of married people, and I cannot think of a single one where learning to love each other as Christ intended did not take work. A lot of it. Loving people is hard, whether you're cohabitating or not. And I'm pretty sure I don't know anyone whose love is perfected. I know some who are close, but perfection is a pretty high standard.

I think it is wise for EVERY engaged couple to go through premarital counseling, whether with their priest or someone else. I think the program we did was beneficial -- meetings with our deacon and with a mentor couple for several sessions, both of whom knew the faith and knew how to impart it with love.

Clearly cohabitation is not the ideal, but making sweeping judgments based on statistics doesn't do much to encourage people to aspire to greater heights.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1926569' date='Jul 21 2009, 11:15 AM']From the discussions we had with marriage prep people when we got married, we got the sense that a significant portion of couples are living together (we were not). It was one of the first questions the deacon asked us, and our mentor couple said better than half the couples they see are in that situation. Where practicable, couples were asked to separate. At the least, they were asked to live as brother and sister until after the wedding. We got the sense that marriage prep staff had to do a lot of counseling about why cohabitation is not a good idea -- and these are couples where at least one person is Catholic.

I think it is easy to pick up a study like this and use it as a stick to beat people into understanding the truth of Catholic teachings on marriage. While cohabitation undoubtedly presents difficulties in many cases, there is nothing like a 99% chance that couples that cohabitate first are going to divorce. And, many couples simply do not know any different. The steps Red has mentioned are perhaps now the most common route couples take. It is "normal" (albeit not normative).


This quote really rubbed me the wrong way. I know a lot of married people, and I cannot think of a single one where learning to love each other as Christ intended did not take work. A lot of it. Loving people is hard, whether you're cohabitating or not. And I'm pretty sure I don't know anyone whose love is perfected. I know some who are close, but perfection is a pretty high standard.

I think it is wise for EVERY engaged couple to go through premarital counseling, whether with their priest or someone else. I think the program we did was beneficial -- meetings with our deacon and with a mentor couple for several sessions, both of whom knew the faith and knew how to impart it with love.

Clearly cohabitation is not the ideal, but making sweeping judgments based on statistics doesn't do much to encourage people to aspire to greater heights.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+

you are the best.

btw, our marriage prep mentioned nothing about living together, or asked us to separate/live as brother/sister, or anything.