God Doesn't Care

[Theologian in Training]

Kitty,

The theology and philosophy has been covered, and you seem to be going in circles, so I will make it a little more concrete for you.

I was born with a heart murmur that developed into something that required open-heart surgery. After a couple of years the original one was no longer working right, so they had to do a second open-heart. As you can imagine, I prayed like Jesus in the Garden, begging and pleading that I did not have to go through it all again. Laying in a bed, in an empty hallway, outside of the ER knowing what is going to happen, and begging that it wouldn't. Although, God did not take away that "cup" from me, He did give me a calm, a calm I could never explain, that went from the tips of my toes to the top of my head, I was then resolved to be operated on and was. After that, I had two more surgeries for the pacemaker they had to put in. All of that at the tender age of 16.

Then I was coming back from having my staples removed with my mom and we hear that there has been a shooting at the place my father worked, I prayed that nothing happened, but knew, just knew that something did.

Afterwards, I wanted to be an atheist, but, for some odd reason prayed every night. In fact, when we moved back home (since we were out of state at the time) I wound up in a church parking lot praying, screaming, yelling, cursing at the crucifix sitting on the edge of the parking lot, hidden away by a little wooded area. I refused to go into the church, because I would not give God the satisfaction.

The last thing I wanted was to know, believe or love God, because how can my God do that to me? How can a loving God love someone so much to make him suffer to such a degree?

Yet, that time spent before the crucifix helped me to see things differently, I understood suffering differently, I even "met" Mary there. I realized that suffering helps us to know what Jesus did for us, it s.ucks, I know, it is not something we want to have to go through, I know, but the fact of the matter is, Jesus suffered and died for us so that we could live in Him. Think about this, Jesus suffered in our human nature and, like it or not, that was His greatest example of love.

When we suffer we understand the type of love He has for us, we understand that the cross in our life is a bouquet of roses in Heaven, thorns and all. As strange as it may sound, we can learn to love Him more when we suffer, because we are imperfect people striving to live in the presence of a perfect God and in order to do that, there is sacrifices that need to be made, yet, all too often we don't see it in that way, we see it as suffering, we see it as God being mean, masochistic and non-loving.

Did you ever hear the story of the man who decided not to go to church because he didn't want to? I am paraphrasing, but, essentially, he heard a noise, it was a group of birds, I believe trying to go through the window, and they kept hurting themselves. The man wished he could communicate with the birds but knew it was pointless, and, at that moment, he wished he could become a bird to explain to them the danger they were causing themselves. He then understood the reason for the Incarnation.

God became one of us, out of love, because otherwise He would be "too big and scary."

But I digress. I have a friend who lost her nephew, when he was very young, she remembers vividly asking God, "Why?" And, she heard a voice, assuring her that just as she suffers emotionally and psychologically, so too did Christ, He suffered in every way, by the, unbelievably, small way that we suffer, we understand a little bit more about what Christ did, and hopefully grow in love for Him as a result.

I know that is probably not the best answer, but I tried.

God bless

Fr. Brian

Edited July 14, 2009 by Theologian in Training

[Sojourner]

[quote name='bonkers' post='1919499' date='Jul 14 2009, 11:04 AM']The morgue people.[/quote]
Huh ... I didn't realize they had an ability to see into people's souls.



Every person has an opportunity to choose how they will respond to the truth that has been revealed to them, whether that's in the instant before they die or in the years leading up to that instant. We all have a chance.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1919475' date='Jul 14 2009, 08:05 AM']Just because we don't get the answer we so desperately desire doesn't mean God isn't listening.
I am sorry for the loss of the little one. I'm glad you got to say goodbye and he was loved and cared for until the end.

Unless they drop dead or have a tragic accident nobody gets out of this world without pain or suffering. We really all are going to die, there is no get out free card, although many people act as though they will live forever and this is a dress rehearsal. Life is infinitely precious, and can be tragically short, and you sometimes won't know until that last moment that it really is the end, so everyday life and love are important.
The only thing we can do in the face of universal suffering to tell the people we love everyday how much we do love them and value them are in our lives. Again I am very sorry for the loss of the little one, and may you eventually find the comfort and peace you seek.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
cmom said it better than i. i will remember you and your loved one in my prayers today.

[bonkers]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1919512' date='Jul 14 2009, 10:32 AM']Every person has an opportunity to choose how they will respond to the truth that has been revealed to them, whether that's in the instant before they die or in the years leading up to that instant. We all have a chance.[/quote]

Yeah, but people who know they are going to die frequently find some sort of spiritual solace before their death and have an opportunity that other people who die instantly don't get.

[bonkers]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1919502' date='Jul 14 2009, 11:11 AM']We simply can not know the last thought that goes on in a person's mind before death.[/quote]

Sometimes a bullet.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='bonkers' post='1919541' date='Jul 14 2009, 12:04 PM']Yeah, but people who know they are going to die frequently find some sort of spiritual solace before their death and have an opportunity that other people who die instantly don't get.[/quote]
So? The question isn't spiritual solace, but eternal destination. Spiritual solace does not determine eternal destination. Your response to the grace offered to you does.

People who die instantly also don't get to make wills. Or say goodbye to the people they love. That's why it's important that we always have a sense of our own mortality so that if we don't have the luxury of planning our own exit we still have our affairs ordered. It's foolish not to take full advantage of the time we do have available to us, then whine about the fact that we weren't ready when crisis hits. Death is a certainty. We're all going to get there. If spiritual solace in the face of death is so important to you, think how much it could benefit you if you sought it out before your untimely demise.

[Apotheoun]

As my dad told me:

[i]God knows what it is like to suffer, because He took on all the brokenness of the human condition when He entered into the world as a man among men, and He experienced more pain than any other man in history when He died upon the cross, because He united Himself with all who suffer pain and loss. God knows what it is like.[/i]

My dad died of pancreatic cancer less then two weeks after saying this, and he never doubted that it was God who helped him through his own time of trial, his own Gethsemane, and that is a true miracle.

[tinytherese]

[quote name='Varg' post='1919439' date='Jul 14 2009, 05:08 AM']She's lost someone very close to her and all you can do is argue about something that she has understandably lost faith in? You're cold.
Kitty, I'm so sorry for what happened.[/quote]

Now I understand that I can't read his mind nor his heart but I doubt that he is trying to sound cold or cruel. Please keep in mind that it is very difficult to talk online and the things that we say can be misinterpreted because we are not face to face and we do not see each other's facial expressions or hear their tone of voice which effect how we interpret what others are saying.

Some people are just more analytical in nature and but are not trying to sound mean at all. That's just how they're wired. Could he have tried to make his posts sound more compassionate perhaps but I wouldn't call him being rude.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Kitty' post='1919363' date='Jul 14 2009, 01:40 AM']No one knows what life would be like without suffering. After all, suffering is all mankind has ever known. People say there is no suffering in heaven. Obviously, a life (or afterlife) without suffering must be so wonderful that it can't exist in our world.[/quote]

If suffering can be redeemed, then life without suffering does exist in our world.

[quote name='Kitty' post='1919396' date='Jul 14 2009, 02:18 AM']I'll give you an example. If I prayed to God "please, let this person be healed from their pain and suffering," and it was granted, then I would accept that God exists, and actually cares.[/quote]

Would you accept the answer to your prayer if the healing came through death?

Think about it: we will all die someday somehow. Isn't it possible that in most cases, God's more compassionate response to prayer is to allow a death that would lead to eternal healing and happiness instead of a physical healing that will only be temporary? Lazarus and Jairus' daughter were both raised from the dead by Jesus, but both still experienced a final death a few years or decades later. The miracles themselves did not deliver these people from pain and suffering; they only served as testimonies to the Gospel of eternal freedom from pain and suffering through the love of God who will bring about the resurrection of the dead.

Edited July 14, 2009 by LouisvilleFan

[Lil Red]

[quote name='bonkers' post='1919544' date='Jul 14 2009, 10:05 AM']Sometimes a bullet.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
how crude.

[tinytherese]

Kitty dear, I have not had the painful experience that you have and I am sorry that you have gone through it. I can't imagine it.

I can however understand somewhat of what you are going through because I have gone through intense spiritual suffering as well as psychological suffering. I am still in the healing process and I know that I still have a long way to go. It's definitely not easy but it is not a hopeless cause. Perhaps reading A Grief Observed by C.S. Lewis might help you. Lewis suffered immensely when his wife died and the two of them were only married for a few short years. He had been an devout Christian who had famously and faithfully defended his faith. Yet after his wife died he felt great anger and hurtful resentment toward God. He wrote A Grief Observed really for his own healing and he doesn't mince words with God. Yet he eventually did find healing.

I'm posting two entries from my blog that you might find helpful.

Bless you dear!

Tuesday, November 18, 2008
Getting the Records Straight About Who God is and What He Desires

A while back one of my friends brought up the topic of God. She admitted that she was having difficulty understanding Him as well as the concept of sin. My college roommate Gertrude and I discussed this with her but I felt that I hadn't given her adequate responses, especially since I am introverted and better explain myself in writing. The following is the email that I sent her.



I wanted to add some further things for you to think about from our conversation earlier about God. These things can certainly be confusing, yet you brought up interesting thoughts.

Let's get the records straight, God is not a cold, power-hungry, sadistic, and hateful God that wants to make us all miserable. Pope Benedict the sixteenth wrote an encyclical (a special letter that the pope writes to the whole world) called "God is love." Everything that He does for us is done out of love. The laws that He has given us are really for our own benefit. He is all-knowing, so He sees everything that can harm us physically, emotionally, mentally, and spiritually. Remember that we call Him "Our Father" like in the prayer that Jesus gave us. If someone were to add up all of the love that every father from the first father to the last one that exists it would all fail in comparison to the love that Our Heavenly Father has for us.

God had no need to create us and to give us such the world that we live in at that, but He did. He didn't have to give us mercy, prophets, or even a promise of a savior (Jesus,) but He did. He didn't have to fulfill His promise of sending us a savior, but He did. He didn't have to agree to His only begotten son's horrific death to make up for our sins so that we could have the ability to be with Him for all eternity in heaven, but He did. He doesn't have to give us unconditional love, but He does.

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him" (John 3:16-17). He didn't come to declare that we are going to hell, but to call us to change. Just like what Gertrude said about the story of the woman caught in adultery, we are not to judge but notice what Our Lord also said. Once the people that wanted to put her to death before because of her very serious sin had left, amazed at the fact that Our Lord had not condemned her and had turned the tables on them by saying that the sinless one among them should cast the first stone (which none of them could do,) He said to the woman, "Go, [and] from now on do not sin any more" (John 8:11). He didn't tell her to go and continue to live the same destructive lifestyle that she had been living, but lovingly called her to turn away from her sin. He tells us the same now and always, for as I quoted from the bible earlier, that He came so that we might be saved through Him, instead of continuing to live in the darkness of sin apart from the light (John 3:17-21).

We are given two options in this life, to love and serve God or to not love and serve God. If we chose to love and serve Him then we must keep His commands, not out of fear, slavery, or obligation but out of love for Him. Why do we do this? Why is it that we must love Him by obeying Him? Because when you love someone, it's not enough to just say that you love them. You need to prove it, so that they know that you really do care. Just talking is cheap, but our actions convey that we mean what we say. Jesus Himself said, "As the Father has loves me, so I also love you. Remain in my love. If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and remain in his love...You are my friends if you do what I command you" (John 15: 9-10, 14).

He doesn't force us, guilt trip us, or pressure us into doing anything. He certainly does want us to choose to love and serve Him, but He gives us the gift of freewill, which proves His love for us. For if He were to make us love and serve Him, then we would not love Him, but would be His slaves. He even loves us enough to allow us to go to hell. (Doesn't that sound ironic? But it's true. ) Because of the gift of free-will, He will not make us love or serve Him. It hurts Him very much (and that's putting it VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY EXTREMELY LIGHTLY) when we in the end choose to reject Him, for no one loves us more than Him.

Grant it we don't always understand why He allows certain things to happen, but He is so far above anything that even the greatest scholar of Him could even dream to understand. Essentially, the terrible and painful consequences of sin and suffering in general help us to grow as people, conquering ourselves, even drawing us closer to God during these times, for we come to completely depend on Him during the hard times (or at least we are meant to.) We are inclined to weakeness and sin but with God we can do anything.

Venial sins are smaller sins commited that weaken our relationship with God but mortal sins are much more serious than that that involve grave sins. Grave sins are things like murder, incest, rape, adultery, practicing homosexuality, slander, libel, intentionally skipping mass when we are capable of making it, etc. These are very grave sins, but in and of themselves are not mortal sins. In order for a sin to be mortal it must not only be a grave sin, but also be done with full knowledge of the sinfulness of these grave sins, and also be done under one's own free will. When a catholic has in fact committed a grave sin then they must not receive Our Lord in communion until they have gone to confession, for consuming Our Lord with such a great stain on one's soul is described as "murdering the Lord."

Jesus wants us to turn away from our sin and to be reconciled to Him, notice how I say reconciled to Him. When we sin we hurt Our Lord and through the gift of confession we are reconciled in our relationship to Him. It's just like in a song that I've heard at mass before. "Come back to me with all your heart. Don't let fear keep us apart. ...Long have I waited for your coming home to me and living deeply our new life." Our Lord is merciful and forgives us when we are sorry for the hurt that we have caused Him and is always awaiting for our return to Him. In this one spiritual devotion called "Divine Mercy" we look at the Divine Mercy picture of Our Lord and say "Jesus I trust in You." www.divinemercyshrine.com/sitebuilder/images/mercy_1_-868x1040.jpg

God bless.
Posted by Rose Petal of St. Therese at 10:09 PM 0 comments


Tuesday, January 27, 2009
Trusting in God Again (Or for the First Time)

In my english composition class last year, we were supposed to write a paper where we identified a problem and then attempted to solve it. One of the problems in my own life (that can still be a struggle even to this day) is trusting in God. I know that many others wrestle with this issue as well. Some have lost their trust in Him, often after a very traumatic event, while some have never trusted in Him at all, some do not care, and some fall into the middle category of the day to day struggle of putting everything in God's hands. My hope is that this essay may give you some encouragement, even a very small amount or to at least leave you wondering.




We have all been through times of pain and suffering, yet extreme cases can be traumatizing. Some examples of these are the loss of a loved one, a breakup, a natural disaster, and even great spiritual trials called dark nights. During these troubling times one may lose one’s trust in God. One may ask, “Has He abandoned me? How could He do this to me? Why should I trust in Him again?” What can a believer do? How can one recover and trust in Him again? It is not easy to trust in God, but it is possible.

What are the harmful effects that one can fall into if one does not regain one’s trust in God? One can fall into emptiness and passivity. St. Augustine of Hippo’s words still ring true: “Our hearts were made for You O Lord, and they are restless until they rest in You.” Who would ever desire this death sentence? Another possibility is that one can be consumed by bitter resentment and possibly abandon one’s faith. Finally, one may fall into the verbal abuse trap by claiming that one is just trying “to get it off of my chest.” “All that stuff about the Cosmic Sadist was not so much the expression of thought as of hatred. I was getting from it the only pleasure a man in anguish can get; the pleasure of hitting back… ‘what I thought’ didn’t mean what I thought was true. Only what I thought would offend Him…” (Lewis 39-40).

The boundary in solving this problem is our human nature. We doubt, think negatively, or may be stubborn in our views, thinking that we know better than God. Human nature also falls back into old habits. Even after a period where things are getting better we may relapse. As we all know, people make mistakes. We are imperfect creatures, but that does not mean that we should stop aiming for the very best. I would rather receive a ninety percent on a test than a zero. One only needs to start little by little. Jesus gives us the example of the mustard seed. “It is the smallest of all the seeds, yet when full-grown it is the largest of plants” (Mt 13:31-32).

When times are hard, we may see God as a very cruel person who takes sadistic pleasure in our sufferings. “It is said that if a lamb constantly veers away from the safety of the flock and into danger, the shepherd will break its legs and then carry it on his shoulders and personally care for it. By the time the bones mend and the lamb can walk again, it has come to love and trust the shepherd so much that it never leaves his side” (Evert 40). Contrary to what we expect, somehow the pain that we are going through is really for our own benefit. The cure may be worse than the illness, but the effects are worthwhile. If we let Him tend to us and guide us, not only will we walk on the right path, but we will grow in our love for Him and learn to depend on Him. We are very weak and desperately need the help of Christ. He tells us, “without me you can do nothing” (Jn 15:5).

Going from when we are incandescently happy, to when we are in a state of total agony is traumatic. We may complain that, “ ‘It was too perfect to last’ ” (Lewis 48). Before falling to lamentations, or when trying to rise above them, think of God saying, “ ‘Good; you have mastered that exercise. I am very pleased with it. And now you are ready to go on to the next.’ When you have learned to do quadratics and enjoy doing them you will not be set them much longer. The teacher moves you on” (Lewis 49). The Lord has many other lessons to teach us and even more adventures to send us on.

Scripture is helpful in discovering or even rediscovering why we should trust in the Lord. Reading scripture in its proper context, and reflecting on it is called the prayer of lectio divina. Here are a few examples of helpful biblical verses:

“Look at the birds in the sky; they do not sow or reap, they gather nothing into barns, yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are not you more important than they?... Why are you anxious about clothes? Learn from the way the wild flowers grow. They do not work or spin... If God so clothes the grass of the field, which grows today and is thrown into the oven tomorrow, will he not much more provide for you, O you of little faith." (Mt 6: 26, 28, 30)

Surely, if God can take care of very small matters then He can certainly take care of big ones as well. Human beings are very precious in His sight, for we are created in His image (Gen. 1:27).

Another example is in the incident with Martha and Mary. Jesus visits two women friends. Mary sits at the feet of the Lord and listens to His words intently (Lk 10: 39). Her sister Martha, on the other hand, is frantically serving the Lord. She complains to Him, asking why He does not tell Mary to get up and help her (Lk 10: 40). He replies, “Martha, Martha, you are anxious and worried about many things. There is need of only one thing. Mary has chosen the better part and it will not be taken from her” (Lk 10: 41-42). We can become so caught up in our daily tasks and problems that it is easy for us to forget what is truly important. Sometimes we just need to pause and spend time with Jesus in prayer. He waits for us and yearns for us. In Him we find peace, joy, and strength.

One more example from scripture is very important for us to keep in mind. “And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age” (Mt 28: 20). Here Jesus promises us that He will never leave us, no matter what. No matter what we go through on earth, He is always at our side. We are never alone.

The most important thing that we must do is remember that the Lord loves us. How do we know this? We know this because thousands of years ago He suffered the most excruciating physical, emotional, and spiritual pain ever known and died the most agonizing death. Meditating on His sufferings is a truly horrendous experience. One could never completely imagine the magnitude of His pain. There is only one answer for why He endured this; love. Blessed Mother Teresa said that, “Love to be real, it must cost- it must hurt- it must empty us of self” (“Love”). His death was the ultimate display of love. It brought us eternal life. The gates of Heaven were finally unlocked after the sin of Adam and Eve. He redeemed us. How can we not trust the one who loves us this much? May we never forget His love for us.

Another step that one can take in this situation is to rely on the intercession of the saints and Mary. The saints are our brothers and sisters in Christ and Mary is our mother. These holy men and women are our friends in “high” places. They understand what we are going through and desire to help us, for they have been through these trials as well. By praying through them, studying their lives, and imitating them we shall learn how to fight the good fight.

As regards to Mary, she is especially powerful with her Son, for she was the one who influenced Him to perform His first miracle at the wedding of Cana (Jn 2: 3- 11). Notice how at Cana, she told the servers, “Do whatever he tells you” (Jn 2: 5). Her true purpose is to lead us to her son. In the words of St. Josemaria Escriva, “…and she- your holy mother Mary- offers you, along with the grace of her son, the refuge of her arms, the tenderness of her embrace… and you will find yourself with added strength for the new battle” (“Our Lady”).

Last but not least, one must treasure the Eucharist. Blessed Pier Giorgio passionately declared that “With all the strength of my soul I urge you young people to approach the Communion table as often as you can. Feed on this bread of angels whence you will draw all the energy you need to fight inner battles” (“The Most Blessed Sacrament”). Not only does receiving the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ strengthen us, but so does Eucharistic adoration. Sometimes one speaks, at other times listens, and there are even times when one simply remains in the presence of one’s Beloved. What joy and peace there is in this!


As one can see, one can recover from not trusting in God. One must be patient, learn to depend on God, and step out of blaming Him for one’s problems. One needs time set aside for prayer, time to reflect on scripture, as well as to meditate on the passion of Christ and His love for us, be devoted to the saints and Mary, and treasure the gift of the Eucharist. It is not easy to trust in God, but it is possible.










Works Cited

Evert, Crystalina. Pure Womanhood. San Diego: Catholic Answers, 2007.

Lewis, C.S. A Grief Observed. New York: HarperCollins, 1961.

“Love.” Pureloveclub.com. Electric Pulp. 2007. 7 November 2007. .

“The Most Blessed Sacrament.” Pureloveclub.com. Electric Pulp. 2007. 7 November
2007. .

The New American Bible. Ed. Hartman, Canada: World Bible Inc., 1987.

“Our Lady.” Pureloveclub.com. Electric Pulp 2007. 7 November 2007. .
Posted by Rose Petal of St. Therese at 11:10 PM 0 comments

[bonkers]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1919550' date='Jul 14 2009, 12:11 PM']So? The question isn't spiritual solace, but eternal destination. Spiritual solace does not determine eternal destination. Your response to the grace offered to you does.

People who die instantly also don't get to make wills. Or say goodbye to the people they love. That's why it's important that we always have a sense of our own mortality so that if we don't have the luxury of planning our own exit we still have our affairs ordered. It's foolish not to take full advantage of the time we do have available to us, then whine about the fact that we weren't ready when crisis hits. Death is a certainty. We're all going to get there. If spiritual solace in the face of death is so important to you, think how much it could benefit you if you sought it out before your untimely demise.[/quote]

The point is some people who would otherwise not repent get this opportunity on their deathbeds if they know they are going to die. Those people who die in plane crashes that dont' get the opportunity to repent on their deathbeds otherwise might have repented if they did. Seems like some people get lucky and some dont.

[Apotheoun]

I have had quite a bit of pain in my own life, and yet I know that God did not cause my suffering.

He did not cause the viral encephalitis I experienced two years ago, which has left me partially paralyzed on the left side of my body. He did not cause the degenerative retinal disease that is slowly causing me to go blind, and that gives me frequent ocular migraines. Nor did He cause my broken back in 1987, or the pain that I continue to experience from that accident. But He did get me through all of these things, and He continues to comfort me when I am in pain because of the ill health I have experienced over the last twenty years of my life.

There are many types of healing, but the most important is peace of mind.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='bonkers' post='1919576' date='Jul 14 2009, 12:31 PM']The point is some people who would otherwise not repent get this opportunity on their deathbeds if they know they are going to die. Those people who die in plane crashes that dont' get the opportunity to repent on their deathbeds otherwise might have repented if they did. Seems like some people get lucky and some dont.[/quote]
The point is that you don't know if they got the opportunity to repent or not. And you don't know if people who repent on their deathbed wouldn't have repented later if they had lived longer.

I say everyone gets the opportunity repent before they die. If it happens to be on the deathbed, great. I don't know that I would consider that "lucky."

God doesn't operate on "luck." He's not arbitrary and capricious in who he offers salvation to. All are given the opportunity to repent and avail themselves of His grace. You are responsible for how you respond to that opportunity, whenever it happens to come.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='bonkers' post='1919576' date='Jul 14 2009, 01:31 PM']The point is some people who would otherwise not repent get this opportunity on their deathbeds if they know they are going to die. Those people who die in plane crashes that dont' get the opportunity to repent on their deathbeds otherwise might have repented if they did. Seems like some people get lucky and some dont.[/quote]
It doesn't quite work that way. No one knows what happens in those final milliseconds before we are gone, or in the conversation with God almighty who is outside of time when we meet him. A millisecond with God is quite enough time to say we are sorry.