Sen Hollings Wants Everyone To Do 2 Yrs N Military

[ironmonk]

Hollings, Ernest - (D - SC) Class III
125 RUSSELL SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
(202) 224-6121


S.89
Title: A bill to provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Sen Hollings, Ernest F. [SC] (introduced 1/7/2003) Cosponsors: (none)



Was surfing the Senate site and found the above...
Here is a list of other things...
[url="http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/legislative/b_three_sections_with_teasers/active_leg_page.htm"]http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/legislati...ve_leg_page.htm[/url]

[ironmonk]

Doesn't this bother anyone?

[M.SIGGA]

I support that all MEN (not women) should be required to serve 2 yrs, especially since America will be at war until the world ends.

[Sojourner]

Doesn't Israel have a policy like this in place? I seem to remember something along those lines.

[BullnaChinaShop]

This would reduce our world-class, professional military to a bunch of short-term conscripts trashing morale and greatly reducing its effectiveness. It doesn't make any sense anyway. The military at its current size doesn't always have all the funding it needs and requiring everyone to serve would potentially increase the size of the military resulting in an incresed demand for funds that have to come from somewhere. It does no good to have an army so large that you can't afford to properly train or arm it and where the majority of your force are looking for their first opportunity to get out of the service.

It is not necessary in this country for everyone to serve for national defense and is a very bad idea to require such service.

[Norseman82]

This is nothing more than the draft that most of our parents and grandparents were subject to, only with the option of civilian service.

[thicke]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Mar 30 2004, 02:45 PM'] Doesn't Israel have a policy like this in place? I seem to remember something along those lines. [/quote]
Yes, I think you're right. I think the Swiss have something like this also. But, both these countries need it to maintain their way of life and political standing. The US doesn't.

My biggest problem with it is that it would probably be abused far often by both sides (the government and the people). Also, I doubt if it would be able to place people in jobs they are suited for. They would need to have some kind of aptitude system to place people where they are suited, or it would never work. Finally, there has to be a non-military alternative that does server the country in some capacity.

Also, I would lament the loss of the "all volunteer military" in the US. I think that's one of our strongest assets.

Edited March 30, 2004 by thicke

[hermit]

It bothers me in the sence that this is what China does, and I definatly don't like the idea of women being FORCED to serve

God Bless.........hermit

[ironmonk]

Forced military service is wrong.
The founders of this country said it was wrong.

Most countries have forced military service or had it at one time, that is why our founding fathers did away with it.

Military is about killing.

There was a saint in Italy that was killed because he would not serve - because being a solider conflicted with his Catholic faith.

We are to depend on God. Not ways of the world.

Unless you can kill, your vow when entering the military is a shallow vow.

From a military stand point; I would not want someone who did not want to kill next to me in battle. They will cost more lives then saving them.

From a Catholic stand point, I am not going to kill for some fat beaurocrat in office meets some kind of agenda. I am not going to promise that I will kill for country.

In today's technological times, the USA does not need soldiers like it use to. Forced service would raise taxes like you would not believe.

Edited March 30, 2004 by ironmonk

[thicke]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Mar 30 2004, 03:16 PM']Forced military service is wrong.
The founders of this country said it was wrong.[/quote]

Can you back this up with documentation. I am not saying it doesn't exist, but this seems to contradict the idea of the draft and selective service, as least the way you worded it.

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Mar 30 2004, 03:16 PM']Military is about killing. [/quote]

I resent that remark, as I'm sure any veteran would. I spent six years in the US military and [b]I am not about killing![/b]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Mar 30 2004, 03:16 PM']Unless you can kill, your vow when entering the military is a shallow vow. [/quote]

Simply not true. I took an oath to defend this country against tyranny. That oath can be found [url="http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/United-States-Military-Oath-of-Allegiance"]here[/url]. I don't see anything about killing in it. Both Sts. Augustine and Aquinas agreed the just wars are not only justified, but sometimes necessary.

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Mar 30 2004, 03:16 PM']From a military stand point; I would not want someone who did not want to kill next to me in battle. They will cost more lives then saving them.[/quote]

While I object to your use of the word "kill" in that context, I do basically agree with you here.

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Mar 30 2004, 03:16 PM']From a Catholic stand point, I am not going to kill for some fat beaurocrat in office meets some kind of agenda. I am not going to promise that I will kill for country. [/quote]

I would generally agree with you here. But, I would kill in the defense of my country.

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Mar 30 2004, 03:16 PM']In today's technological times, the USA does not need soldiers like it use to. Forced service would raise taxes like you would not believe.[/quote]

This is simply not true. Even in this technological age, the only alternative to putting "boot on the ground", would be to bomb the enemy into submission. Is that what you want?

[M.SIGGA]

This thread is such a surprise to me!

Monk, your "Armed Resistance is Close" Thread a little while ago spoke very differently than your last post.

BTW Shouldn't a warring nation have the biggest and best military (of men)?

This War on Terror, in which our first theatre is Iraq and Afganistan, we are supposedly defending our homes and families from alien/foreign terrorist attacks.

EVERY American who defines themself as one, who is comfortable living under freedoms won by the blood of our forefathers, and at least everyone who will identify and vote for a War President should be more than willing to stand up and fight. Every man must protect his home and his family.

I thought as a Christian it is one's duty to uphold justice, including Just War, at all costs? Please correct me if I'm wrong. If it's for Justice, then all comforts must be forfeited (including low taxes) right?

Ha, I seriously thought I was the only person on Pm with a bleeding heart!

[MrsFrozen]

The military is not about killing. It is about defending the country. It rarely comes to killing. My husband serves this country. He does not go out and kill people.

I don't know about mandatory military service (besides the draft), but I do think all men should go through boot camp. It did my husband a world of good, I know that much!

God bless.

[M.SIGGA]

[quote name='MrsFrozen' date='Mar 30 2004, 04:36 PM'] The military is not about killing.  It is about defending the country.  It rarely comes to killing.  My husband serves this country.  He does not go out and kill people.

I don't know about mandatory military service (besides the draft), but I do think all men should go through boot camp.  It did my husband a world of good, I know that much!

God bless.  [/quote]
Mandatory boot camp would make this generation(my generation of 20 somethings) not be so passive about real world issues. Many are overweight and lazy and don't vote or care about politics - it would be an eyeopener plus it would help out the military and the overall defense and protection of America.

ha, I'm sounding soo Republican!

[Iacobus]

I hate this idea. LOL, if it was passed my parents would send me to leave with my cousins who live in British Columbia. My family has a past of anti-war ness after WWII. We had members who fought in that war. He also had a member who was almost shiped to Korea with his USMC unit. However, during Vietnam my dad got an deferment and had to work at Singer Mental Health Hospital in Rockford, because of his ideas about the war. I would have done the same thing or crossed 49* North because I wouldn't have supported that war. I would support this idea if our goverment was infallible but it is not, as Iraq and 9/11 have shown.

[Iacobus]

[quote name='M.SIGGA' date='Mar 30 2004, 04:45 PM'] Mandatory boot camp would make this generation(my generation of 20 somethings) not be so passive about real world issues. Many are overweight and lazy and don't vote or care about politics - it would be an eyeopener plus it would help out the military and the overall defense and protection of America.

ha, I'm sounding soo Republican! [/quote]
I think the boot camp would be a good idea, but what would be cheaper and more effecitive is striping high schools of PE classes are replacing them with PT classes. PE is just a time to play sports (which is good and all) but a Physical Training class would be better. And maybe a 2 week thing every few years that is like a mini-boot camp. That way if we were needed we would know what we are doing and be better fit to act. But it would leave the draft (which is normaly pretty fair) and all.