OraProMe Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=95842&st=120&start=120"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...0&start=120[/url] In the posts above a phatmass member says that friendships between catholics and homosexuals are only appropriate if there is no chance of scandal (however that comes about through friendship) or the Catholics beliefs changing. I think we should avoid another debate about sexual ethics and assume the Church is right. I'd also like to expand the question to all sinners, not just active homosexuals. Clearly, I think so and I think it's great. Seperating ourselves from others is bad and this attitude smacks of arrogance. You guys? Maybe real life experiences too... Edited July 4, 2009 by OraProMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) We should always avoid giving scandal or putting ourselves in a near occasion of sin if we can. For some, it could be an occasion of sin to be friends with a practicing homosexual. For example, if a homosexual living chastely would be tempted to sins of impurity when around practicing homosexuals, he should avoid them. If, by going to a gay bar, a priest would give the impression that he approved of the gay lifestyle or that he himself was a practicing homosexual, he should not go there. Edited July 4, 2009 by Resurrexi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted July 4, 2009 Author Share Posted July 4, 2009 Who mentioned a gay bar o.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) Perhaps the following would be a better example. A priest should not be seen in public with a two homosexuals who are kissing each other passionately if it would give the impression that he approved of the homosexual act. Edited July 4, 2009 by Resurrexi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone _ Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 What about an unmarried couple kissing in the same manner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) Depending on what one's definition of passionate kissing is, it might be a mortal sin, a venial sin, or no sin at all for an unmarried man and woman to kiss passionately. Whether a priest would give scandal by being seen in public with an unmarried man and woman kissing passionately would depend on a number of factors. Edited July 4, 2009 by Resurrexi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone _ Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1910378' date='Jul 4 2009, 02:27 AM']Depending on what one's definition of passionate kissing is, it might be a mortal sin, a venial sin, or no sin at all for an unmarried man and woman to kiss passionately. Whether a priest would give scandal by being seen in public with an unmarried man and woman kissing passionately would depend on a number of factors.[/quote] The exact same standards that two men kissing would cause. That was implied. Stop trying to weasel and answer the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 [quote name='OraProMe' post='1910360' date='Jul 4 2009, 03:03 AM'][url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=95842&st=120&start=120"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...0&start=120[/url] In the posts above a phatmass member says that friendships between catholics and homosexuals are only appropriate if there is no chance of scandal (however that comes about through friendship) or the Catholics beliefs changing. I think we should avoid another debate about sexual ethics and assume the Church is right. I'd also like to expand the question to all sinners, not just active homosexuals. Clearly, I think so and I think it's great. Seperating ourselves from others is bad and this attitude smacks of arrogance. You guys? Maybe real life experiences too...[/quote] Catholics can be friends with sinners. There are many types of sinners, among which an active homosexual lifestyle is one (if we go by Church teaching). Of course, the scandal card does come into play when it regards people who are completely open and public with their sin. So a Catholic does need to certainly be careful not to come across as supporting the sin, but there is nothing that forbids a Catholic from being friends with another sinner, gay or otherwise. I'd have to find the source if anyone wants me to reference it, but I believe the Catholic Church also specifies that one can only be considered a true friend when he or she aims to help the other person spiritually, ie one is a true friend only when his goal is not only to get along with the person on a human level but also has to do what he can to guide this person to heaven. That said, as long as nothing is done to make people believe the Catholic supports of his gay friend's lifestyle and the Catholic friend does what he can (within the bounds of a friendship) to lead his gay friend away from the active lifestyle, then there is nothing wrong with the friendship and I think can be quite beneficial to both parties involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) [quote name='T-Bone _' post='1910379' date='Jul 4 2009, 03:31 AM']The exact same standards that two men kissing would cause. That was implied. Stop trying to weasel and answer the question.[/quote] There is not always a way to know if a man and a woman who are kissing are married or not. There is no way that two persons of the same sex can validly marry. Edited July 4, 2009 by Resurrexi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone _ Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1910382' date='Jul 4 2009, 02:34 AM']There is not always a way to know if a man and a woman who are kissing are married or not. There is no way that two persons of the same sex can validly marry.[/quote] You have yet to answer the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) [quote name='goldenchild17' post='1910381' date='Jul 4 2009, 03:33 AM']That said, as long as nothing is done to make people believe the Catholic supports of his gay friend's lifestyle and the Catholic friend does what he can (within the bounds of a friendship) to lead his gay friend away from the active lifestyle, then there is nothing wrong with the friendship and I think can be quite beneficial to both parties involved.[/quote] I said something similar in the thread in the Lame Board: "It [a friendship between a strong Catholic and a practicing homosexual] would be appropriate if such a friendship would not cause scandal or be an occasion of sin. " Edited July 4, 2009 by Resurrexi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted July 4, 2009 Author Share Posted July 4, 2009 If my Catholic friends constantly tried to change my lifestyle I'd be offended. I mean we've discussed it and disagreed but we always did it in a friendly manner. I think they're slightly naive and they probably keep me in their prayer intentions. That's enough, anything else is detrimental to our friendship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) [quote name='T-Bone _' post='1910383' date='Jul 4 2009, 03:36 AM']You have yet to answer the question.[/quote] I will give a hypothetical situation in which a devout Catholic being seen in public with an unmarried man and woman who are passionately kissing could give scandal. *The onlookers know that the devout Catholic is a very conscientious Catholic who is extremely knowledgeable about Christian morality. *The onlookers know that the couple is not married. *The man and woman are kissing so passionately that it is clear to the onlookers that the kissing is a sin of grave matter. *The devout Catholic seems to approve of the immodest kissing. Edited July 4, 2009 by Resurrexi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) [quote name='OraProMe' post='1910385' date='Jul 4 2009, 03:40 AM']If my Catholic friends constantly tried to change my lifestyle I'd be offended. I mean we've discussed it and disagreed but we always did it in a friendly manner. I think they're slightly naive and they probably keep me in their prayer intentions. That's enough, anything else is detrimental to our friendship.[/quote] Prayer is as powerful a weapon as anything as far as I'm concerned, so if discussing it doesn't work, I'm sure they're as good a friend as any in this regard and doing what they can. I think people can be friends and get along while still openly disagreeing with each other on fundamental issues. Edited July 4, 2009 by goldenchild17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone _ Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1910386' date='Jul 4 2009, 02:43 AM']I will give a hypothetical situation in which a devout Catholic being seen in public with an unmarried man and woman who are passionately kissing could give scandal. *The onlookers know that the devout Catholic is a very conscientious Catholic who is extremely knowledgeable about Christian morality. *The onlookers know that the couple is not married. *The man and woman are kissing so passionately that it is be clear to the onlookers that the kissing is a sin of grave matter. *The devout Catholic seems to approve of the immodest kissing.[/quote] Why is your reasoning so contrived with a man and a woman, and so simple with two guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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