New Prostitution Poll

[Don John of Austria]

Please understand, I am not pro prostitution, I simply do not think that it should necessarly be criminal certianly not if fornication is not criminal.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='zunshynn' date='Jul 4 2009, 07:34 PM' post='1910912']
good health, even of a whole society, is a lesser good than the salvation of one soul, or even of one mortal sin not being committed. surely you must agree with that.
[color="#2E8B57"] No I am not sure I agree with that, not when we are talking about thinks like AIDS, tens of thousands of orphans starving and homeless in Uganda becuase their parents are dead. Fatal deseases infesting a society lead to great evil, what woill a starving child agree to, or justify to feel himself, or his siblings. No, I do not necessarly agree. There is a reason pestilence has always been seen as the realm of Satan.[/color]



I'm not saying that the government should make laws based on the legitimacy of sexual pleasure between partners, but that the government does have an obligation to stop human trafficking. It is irrelevant, from a legal point of view, if the partners are committing adultery or fornication. You're right it doesn't differ specifically, in the moral sense, but it does legally because one involves commerce, and one does not.
[color="#2E8B57"]Do you really think that there would be more human trafficing if prostitution as out n the open. As opposed to in the shadows.... I disagree. I think that much of the sex slaverly currently going on in our own country would come to an end.[/color]

/quote]

[CatherineM]

Since legalizing prostitution actually increases the number of trafficked women and children, I would say that legalizing it doesn't aid society. Not to mention that the money from human trafficking goes mainly to organized crime.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1911542' date='Jul 5 2009, 11:42 AM']Since legalizing prostitution actually increases the number of trafficked women and children, I would say that legalizing it doesn't aid society. Not to mention that the money from human trafficking goes mainly to organized crime.[/quote]


since that is not logical in anyway, you will have to provide some justification for that statement.

I challenge you to find an enslaved women in a Nevada brothel or in dutch brothel for that matter.

Edited July 5, 2009 by Don John of Austria

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' post='1911556' date='Jul 5 2009, 10:53 AM']since that is not logical in anyway, you will have to provide some justification for that statement.

I challenge you to find an enslaved women in a Nevada brothel or in dutch brothel for that matter.[/quote]

I have worked against human trafficking for years. I am currently on the Provincial human trafficking coalition. You apparently are not informed about the realities of prostitution. That's probably to your credit though. Here are some links to get yourself better informed.

[url="http://www.humantrafficking.org/updates/643"]Human Trafficking[/url]

[url="http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/38901.pdf"]Trafficking/Prostitution[/url]

[url="http://gvnet.com/humantrafficking/Australia.htm"]Trafficking/Prostitution in Australia[/url]

[Winchester]

I hate traffic, too.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1911585' date='Jul 5 2009, 12:14 PM']I hate traffic, too.[/quote]

Dude you hate hooters, this goes much deeper with you.

[Don John of Austria]

Okay, I spent a bit informing my self on the human trafficing problem in Australia. THe government estemates that between 700 and 1000 women are trafficed there. This is according to the UN definition of Trafficed women, not according to thier own laws, which would place the number much lower. Conversly the US traffics in between 18,000 and 50,000 women. Whle the 18,000 would be proportional comparitive to population anything above that would not.

I fail to see how legalization increases traffic?

I also noted that Australia does not seem to regulate thier prostitution very closely which I could see as a problem. I mean even in the middle ages, in many places prostitutes were required to be licensed. Again, I fail to see how bringing something out in the open and regulating it can lead to more slavery than keeping it in the shadows.

Agian, I challenge you to find an enslaved women in a Nevada brothel.

Edited July 5, 2009 by Don John of Austria

[Winchester]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' post='1911593' date='Jul 5 2009, 12:18 PM']Dude you hate hooters, this goes much deeper with you.[/quote]
I don't hate hooters, I just recognize that it objectifies women and exploits their sexuality.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1911632' date='Jul 5 2009, 12:44 PM']I don't hate hooters, I just recognize that it objectifies women and exploits their sexuality.[/quote]


You don't hate the objectification of women and exploitation of their sexuality?

[Don John of Austria]

For all here who might not know me very well.. Pllease keep in mind that I support public execution for those who engage in the slave trade.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1911632' date='Jul 5 2009, 12:44 PM']I don't hate hooters, I just recognize that it objectifies women and exploits their sexuality.[/quote]


So does walmart.


But regardless, wings and more has better wings and doesn't objectify anyone except maybe chickens.

Chicken wings, soaked in hot sauce, are delicious.

[zunshynn]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' post='1911313' date='Jul 5 2009, 12:42 AM']Not according to the government. the governments laws on employment are supposed to apply to ALL jobs. as are the rules on income tax. If I get my friend to plumb my house for free, I am supposed to report the valure of that job as income and pay taxes on it. Barter works the same way. The government turns a blind eye to the boy mowing lawns, as it does to barter, but the law governs them. The relationship, according the the US government is not differant at all. So why would it be with prostitution.[/quote]

Thank you for pointing that out. However, that doesn't change the fact that even if a man and woman are using each other sexually for a place to stay, or dinner, or whatever, it's still not a business transaction. He's not hiring her. And that kind of "bartering" is not very common anyway. As I've said before, if men want to have sex with their girlfriends or vice versa, they will. Whether or not prostitution is legal will not change that.


[quote][color="#2E8B57"]Do you really think that there would be more human trafficing if prostitution as out n the open. As opposed to in the shadows.... I disagree. I think that much of the sex slaverly currently going on in our own country would come to an end.[/color][/quote]

Yes there would be more trafficking. Statistics show that when laws against prostitution are relaxed, illegal prostitution also goes up.

In Amsterdam, where prostitution is very legal, 1 out of 35 women is a prostitute. The Netherlands also has a very heavy trafficking market, especially for women and children from other countries, particularly from Asia and Eastern Europem where prostitution is illegal in name, but not enforced by any stretch of the imagination, like Thailand, Albania, Bulgaria, China, and Hungary, to name just a few. 80% of the prostitutes in the Netherlands are foreigners, most without documentation, which is likely to mean they were trafficked. Trafficking has tripled there in the last 20 years.

With the legalization of prostitution in the Netherlands there also came other strange laws, like allowing mental patients to go to prostitutes for reduced rates for "therapy". Prostitutes are also able to write off their clothes and trips to the hairstylist as business costs.

Because of this, and because of violence related to prostitution, the Netherlands and Germany are considering changing their laws. Australia has had similar problems.

[url="http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/netherl.htm"]Trafficking in the Netherlands[/url]

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_the_Netherlands"]Prostitution in the Netherlands[/url]

Nevada has also found that even when prostitution is legal, illegal forms of prostitution also have gone up.

One study has shown that 81% of Nevada prostitutes want out of the business. And almost all were raped as children before getting into prostitution.

In the process of the counties of Nevada licensing brothels, the state usually does not break even. It has also negatively affected the housing market, and brought up cases of tax evasion.

You might bring up the fact that many countries where prostitution is illegal still have very heavy trafficking, including of children... however, none of those countries enforce their laws. Some even have instances where police work at brothels, even though it's illegal. In cases where prostitution is illegal, and enforced, such as Sweden, the rates have dramatically decreased.

[url="http://www.nevadacoalition.org/factsheets/LegliznFactSheet091707c.pdf"]Prostitution in Nevada[/url]

[Norseman82]

I noticed that you embedded your response within my quote so I could not just quote you. Nice try, but it failed.

[quote name='Don John of Austria' post='1910811' date='Jul 4 2009, 04:33 PM']For example at 18 I had to register for the draft, but my sister did not. That is a double standard.[/quote]

Let me get this straight - you are comparing serving one's country with prostittion?

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' post='1911631' date='Jul 5 2009, 11:42 AM']Agian, I challenge you to find an enslaved women in a Nevada brothel.[/quote]

I don't personally know of any women who are enslaved in Nevada. I'm more involved in the ones enslaved here in Edmonton. I do know a couple here whose daughter disappeared in Nevada, and the RCMP has been trying to find her in the brothels. They found out that her "boyfriend" that was going to get he a job in Vegas was actually involved in the trade. The National Coalition for the Protection of Children and Families has been researching the issue though.

[quote]Legalizing prostitution hurts those prostituted. Research suggests as many as 9 out of 10 prostituted women self-report a desire to escape the industry. A nine-country study found that 95% of prostitutes experienced sexual harassment on the job that would have been prosecuted under U.S. laws in any other circumstance. In Germany, 59% of prostituted individuals believe that their legal status does not increase their safety from sexual assault. Likewise, in Nevada’s legal brothels, prostitutes are not protected against physical, verbal, and emotional abuse. By definition, prostitution involves the purchase of sexual power over another—a practice that is inherently exploitative and naturally fosters sexual violence.

Legalization instantly legitimizes the pimps’ and traffickers’ system of manipulation and emotional dependence. Although many hoped that legalizing prostitution would eliminate the abusive role of pimps, over half of the prostitutes in Nevada’s legal brothels are controlled by outside pimps. Instead of bringing justice, legalization implicitly endorses their actions. In addition, ex-prostitute Jody Williams has explained that as the government fills its coffers with tax revenue from this abusive industry, the state becomes a hidden third pimp.

Legalizing prostitution also hurts the general public. In regions where prostitution has been legalized, the demand for commercial sex has increased. Increased demand has led to an increase in sex trafficking into these regions, the growing specialty of national and international organized crime groups. The best known example of legalized prostitution—Amsterdam’s red-light district—has been identified by Dutch police as the center of some of the world’s largest human trafficking and money-laundering rings. In addition, the normalization of prostitution in places like Nevada increases the occurrence of rape. In Las Vegas, women are three times more likely to be raped than in New York City. Perhaps most disturbing is the fact that legalized prostitution sends a message to the community that individuals can be bought and dominated for personal pleasure.

The results of Sweden’s recent approach to the issue of prostitution demonstrate a compelling alternative to the bankrupt idea of legalizing “sex work,” which even Amsterdam officials acknowledge has failed. Recognizing that prostitution victimizes those in the system, Sweden has shifted the focus of felony charges onto the buyers of sex, while directing social services to those prostituted. This policy has nearly eliminated sex trafficking into the country, and domestic prostitution has not increased. Nevada’s policy of legalization has had precisely the opposite effect.

Legalized prostitution is a failed social experiment. Research suggests that for every woman who might actually choose “sex work” over other available forms of employment, untold numbers are being driven into prostitution through force, fraud, coercion, or the ravaging effects of poverty, discrimination, and previous abuse. To legitimize the commodification of human beings is not only ineffective policy, it is an unconscionable abdication of the state’s responsibility to protect its citizens and promote the value of human life.[/quote]
[url="http://www.opposingviews.com/arguments/legalized-prostitution-is-a-failed-social-experiment"]Source[/url]