Bruce S Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 [quote]When a baby dies Question Are we correct to think that all babies go to heaven? Answer I am convinced that all babies who die in their infancy go to heaven. We must not think that they go to heaven because they are ‘innocent’. They are not. All Adam’s children are “shapen in iniquity.” All children are born with original sin. They need to be redeemed and washed to be admitted to heaven. Knowing the loving heart of God, we are encouraged to believe that the Lord is gracious to these little ones. It is true that they are conceived in sin. However it is also gloriously true that where sin abounds, grace abounds much more! Our Lord Jesus said, “Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.” Of the little children is the kingdom of heaven! There would be many many children with us in our Father’s house. This morning I felt a little bit jealous for a tiny baby girl - a gentle rebel, I call her - who was determined to leave this world of ours to be with the Lord. Standing beside her incubator while she was taking her last breaths, I whispered, “God bless you little one. Go! It is much better in heaven that it is here. One day I’ll meet you there.” [/quote] Good topic, worthy of some dialogue.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Bruce, there are several threads debating Limbo. Are you trying to start another? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce S Posted March 30, 2004 Author Share Posted March 30, 2004 I guess no, but it certainly seems like yes, so, after reading your reply, I ask that the moderators close this topic. Limbo was not really on my mind when posting the opening thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 It doesn't matter to me really. I was kind of joking. I have just grown tired of bouncing around three threads all debating the same thing. You can throw this quote into one of those other threads if you want? Or leave it here and let come what may. Do what you like Bruce. It doesn't matter to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XIX Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 We could talk about something other than limbo... If we just assume, for the sake of argument, that babies do go to heaven, do they have a smaller "degree of glory" than somebody who produces more fruits during a longer lifespan? I understand that heaven is perfect happiness, in that it is never tainted by sin. However, is it possible, that some (the Blessed Virgin for example) actually are granted a higher degree of glory than the rest of us, for doing so much good while on earth? I don't know what the theological thinking on this is, but I did come across the Promises of Fatima. They said, among many other wonderful things, that the faithful people of the rosary will have a very high degree of glory in heaven. So that's where I got that idea from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 [quote name='Bruce S' date='Mar 30 2004, 05:56 AM'] Good topic, worthy of some dialogue.... [/quote] I agree with the article you posted Bruce [quote]actually are granted a higher degree of glory than the rest of us, for doing so much good while on earth? [/quote] Don't forget "Who is good but God alone." I can not take credit for the things I do or know. God is the giver of all good gifts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicCrusader Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 [quote]If we just assume, for the sake of argument, that babies do go to heaven, do they have a smaller "degree of glory" than somebody who produces more fruits during a longer lifespan?[/quote] To answer the second part, though--yes, of course there are degrees of glory in Heaven just as there are degrees of pain in hell. It would be unjust to allow someone who does no good all his life, being baptised at the last moment of his life to skip right over Purgatory and then be equal to Our Lady in Heaven..that seems absolutely absurd and unjust. God Himself is the JUST Judge; therefore, there must be degrees to which we are glorified and punished (either in Purgatory and Hell). Of course, Purgatory is based upon your sins; therefore, there is certainly difference in suffering there. The only place where all souls are the same is Limbo (for none have done anything beneficial, even if they are before the age of reason and have done good, say at age 5 or so, because the Council of Florence says that only those existing in the Church can earn merit for their good works of a Christian soldier, and certainly these are not in the Church. Also, far from being works of a Christian soldier, these things are done without any reason or intent to do good, for if there was knowledge of good and evil, then this unbaptised person would be at the age of use and would instead of Limbo, suffer the eternal fires of hell.) Anyway, yes, there are degrees. To answer your quote, it would seem that those who do not receive water baptism would not at all have glory in Heaven, for they did no good whatsoever. Therefore, this would be little greater than Limbo, even more providing basis for a belief in Limbo. (Of course the Beatific Vision is perfect hapiness, yet there are still degrees, for one who has not merited in any wise the worth of, say, Our Lady or St. Thomas Aquinas or St. Peter or St. Pius V or any number of holy Saints, would never expect anything more than he receives in reward, for Our Lord judges justly.) God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 I'd like to throw in that reincarnation might be a possibility. But I realize no one here would give that any credence. So from a RC perspective, I'd say that I don't see why baby souls can't spend time in purgatory because we are all sinful. Or God knows the baby's true heart regardless of the life she never had a chance to elad and puts her where she belongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amarkich Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Reincarnation...that has no basis for belief in any kind of logical religion. Where do you get the idea that reincarnation is possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicAndFanatical Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 maybe buddha told her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 [quote name='CatholicAndFanatical' date='Mar 31 2004, 09:36 AM'] maybe buddha told her [/quote] Aww.. I think its a perfectly reasonable thing to bring up, considering how many millions of people believe in this. Obviously I don't think the doctrine of reincarnation holds any weight, but its still something people think about. I used to have this really cool book about reincarnation, I think its packed in a box somewhere, haven't seen it lately. But anyway it went through the history of belief in reincarnation and discussed all the different strands and versions and their historical development. It was very interesting. I thought it was interesting that hindus didn't always believe in it. It used to be that the noble class and the guru types believed more like what Christian's believe about the soul and afterlife, but the uneducated common folk held to reincarnation as a kind of superstition, and later it became the dominant belief of their tradition. Anyway, its been so long since I've looked at that book I probably shouldn't say too much cause I might get my facts wrong. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XIX Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Another tidbit to nibble on... God allows miscarriages to happen, and they often do through no fault of the parents or of anybody else on the outside. In fact, I have even heard that fifty percent of all concepted embryos don't implant, are are miscarried without the parents even realizing. (not even including the ones that happen like that because of the pergesterone in birth control pills) My question is why would God make it like that if He knew they would all lose their salvation? Granted we can't say for sure what God motives are, but I would speculate that, if this is the case about miscarriages, that it points in the direction that they can go to heaven. I think God is smart enough not to create women in such a way that it would automatically beaver dam half of the population without any chance! But I'm not totally clear on the biological facts behind single-celled miscarriages, so I'll keep that in mind as well. PS: Feel luckt to be alive, yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 [quote name='XIX' date='Mar 31 2004, 10:03 AM'] Another tidbit to nibble on... God allows miscarriages to happen, and they often do through no fault of the parents or of anybody else on the outside. In fact, I have even heard that fifty percent of all concepted embryos don't implant, are are miscarried without the parents even realizing. (not even including the ones that happen like that because of the pergesterone in birth control pills) My question is why would God make it like that if He knew they would all lose their salvation? Granted we can't say for sure what God motives are, but I would speculate that, if this is the case about miscarriages, that it points in the direction that they can go to heaven. I think God is smart enough not to create women in such a way that it would automatically beaver dam half of the population without any chance! But I'm not totally clear on the biological facts behind single-celled miscarriages, so I'll keep that in mind as well. PS: Feel luckt to be alive, yet? [/quote] Yes, I've thought about that a lot. Often the facts regarding this are exaggerated, but its still true. I think maybe God makes little cherubs this way. Hehe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce S Posted April 1, 2004 Author Share Posted April 1, 2004 Homicide charge for killing unborn child Man in DUI crash accused of breaking law protecting 'viable fetus' -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted: April 1, 2004 1:00 a.m. Eastern © 2004 WorldNetDaily.com A South Florida man involved in a DUI-related crash last summer is now charged with vehicular homicide in the death of a woman's unborn child. > continued: [url="http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=37833"]http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=37833[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted April 1, 2004 Share Posted April 1, 2004 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Mar 31 2004, 10:57 AM'] Aww.. I think its a perfectly reasonable thing to bring up, considering how many millions of people believe in this. Obviously I don't think the doctrine of reincarnation holds any weight, but its still something people think about. [/quote] If Catholics cannot debate certain aspects of Vatican II or the Novus Ordo on this phorum without being hushed, how can Catholics deating the legitimacy of reincarnation be legitimate? Just curious. Based on the fact that people think about it? I sometimes think that the Novus Ordo was vreated by a freemason. Can we discuss this? Actually, LD, I am once again just giving you hard time. I don't actually care that reincarnation is discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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