dairygirl4u2c Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 sometimes, realistic (ie relecting reality -- ie, not the alternative artificiality) sometimes, wishy washy, for sure i tend to think the former moreso. but, given my biases color my stance, and given i don't keep a record bank to make a good judgment, im open to the suggestion that im more wishy washy than realistic. (how's that for wishy washy -- ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"Kyrie eleison" Posted July 1, 2009 Author Share Posted July 1, 2009 [quote]sometimes, realistic (ie relecting reality -- ie, not the alternative artificiality) sometimes, wishy washy, for sure i tend to think the former moreso. but, given my biases color my stance, and given i don't keep a record bank to make a good judgment, im open to the suggestion that im more wishy washy than realistic. (how's that for wishy washy -- ha[/quote] You are AMUSING! I once told you that you would return to the Catholic faith. I believe one day you will. We are all on a journey to find the TRUTH and I believe my sister has a heart for GOD and she will find her way back, just as I did and many others who have doubted and left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachael Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1905303' date='Jun 29 2009, 11:48 AM']We need to pray that people will be more informed about the Holy Sacrament of Holy Matrimony, and come to the right decision in choosing who they marry the first time around... ...it's a serious decision, and one that should not be taken lightly... I have often wondered how a couple can make such promises to the Almighty God, and then not follow through with them... In your sister's case, you say her husband was abusive... were there absolutely no signs of this while they were dating??? soo many marriages are not blessed, because in our day and age, commitment and respect for one another is lacking... I believe it was the Blessed Mother at Fatima who predicted that many marriages will not be blessed, and are actually offensive towards God...thus the reasons for the increase in the number of annullments in our day and age[/quote] You can't always predict the future actions of a person. Abusive signs do not always show up until later. Take these two examples: One of my best friends when I was little had a step father that was an odd man. He was nice to me and to everyone else around. I never took him to be anything else except...odd. One day, a few later, I get a call from my mother. She informs me that my friend's mom is getting a divorce from this man. Why? He had been sexually abusing my friend and her sister for a while, and she had come forward to her mother. The two of them had been married for a number of years before the disturbing behavior started. How was she to know he was like this? Another example is my own father. He is an abusive man. I do not just mean emotionally, but physically as well. On New Years Eve, I called up a friend who lived 4 away to come and get me because my father decided to get angry at me. Why? I had the television remote. He kicked me and punched me, leaving footprint-sized bruises upon my shin and chest. Now, he used to not be like this, he was a much kinder and gentler man. But, he was abused as a child. This behavior didn't show up until i was in middle school or so. How was my mother to know that he would be like this? He never showed the signs of abuse before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 If the Church refuses to baptize a child because the parents are living in adultery, that is news to me, since the Church baptizes children of parents who are not married. [quote name='"Kyrie eleison' post='1905168' date='Jun 29 2009, 10:57 AM']I know many leave for this reason. How should I, we reach out to divorcee's?[/quote] This is what disturbs me. Why are YOU considering leaving the Church? What did the Church do to YOU? Besides, it is not the Church's responsibility to abandon Christ's teaching on divorce/remarriage; it is the responsibility of those living in adultery to repent and stop living in adultery, either by separating, by living as brother/sister, or by pursuing the annulment (and if they are denied the annulment, to separate or live as brother/sister). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 [quote name='rachael' post='1908085' date='Jul 2 2009, 09:32 AM']You can't always predict the future actions of a person. Abusive signs do not always show up until later. Take these two examples: One of my best friends when I was little had a step father that was an odd man. He was nice to me and to everyone else around. I never took him to be anything else except...odd. One day, a few later, I get a call from my mother. She informs me that my friend's mom is getting a divorce from this man. Why? He had been sexually abusing my friend and her sister for a while, and she had come forward to her mother. The two of them had been married for a number of years before the disturbing behavior started. How was she to know he was like this? Another example is my own father. He is an abusive man. I do not just mean emotionally, but physically as well. On New Years Eve, I called up a friend who lived 4 away to come and get me because my father decided to get angry at me. Why? I had the television remote. He kicked me and punched me, leaving footprint-sized bruises upon my shin and chest. Now, he used to not be like this, he was a much kinder and gentler man. But, he was abused as a child. This behavior didn't show up until i was in middle school or so. How was my mother to know that he would be like this? He never showed the signs of abuse before.[/quote] You are correct. Many do not show any signs of having abusive behaviors until well into the marriage. My father was abusive towards me in the same way. Both physically and emotionally. I can understand your experience. He also did not show any signs of this before my mother married him... in fact, I often think I triggered this in him... I was talking more about those instances (and I wonder if this is the majority of the time,) where women marry abusive boyfriends. Those cases where men have definitely shown signs... I know plenty of young ladies in my own circle of friendships and acquaintances, who, having been hurt so often in their dating years, wind up marrying the abusive boyfirend. I never understood this... But I guess, there is that strong committment factor, where the women actually believe they can change their man... or, no matter what they do, they will always stick to them, even if it means being brutalized and destroyed... Something else has happened to relationships in light of the "sexual revolution" of the '60s. In my own experience, I have met and dated several men, and almost all of them believed that consummation was necessary to have a true relationship! When I wouldn't put out, the relationship always fell through. These men did not last long in my life. Because of the sexually saturated society we live in, I get the feeling most men of our age do not respect women at all---that they have such a skewed vision of the true beauty and dignity of women... It is very difficult to find that special man who has a great love of God and a great respect and love for their woman. I know they are out there, but they are few and far between. The Sexual Revolution was supposed to "liberate" women. All it really has done is force most women to fall into a hedonistic image that she was never supposed to fill. It has actually bound us females into chains... I think this society we were raised in and the age we live in have so eroded the way men and women view each other that this is yet another problem that has caused marital stress and breakdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"Kyrie eleison" Posted July 2, 2009 Author Share Posted July 2, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Norseman82' post='1908112' date='Jul 2 2009, 11:06 AM']If the Church refuses to baptize a child because the parents are living in adultery, that is news to me, since the Church baptizes children of parents who are not married.[/quote] Yes, the Churches in our area have told my sis that she has to get her first marriage annulled and have her present marriage acknowledge by the Church. [quote name='Norseman82' post='1908112' date='Jul 2 2009, 11:06 AM']This is what disturbs me. Why are YOU considering leaving the Church? What did the Church do to YOU?[/quote] No, I did that many years ago, in my journey back home. I am here to stay! [quote name='Norseman82' post='1908112' date='Jul 2 2009, 11:06 AM']Besides, it is not the Church's responsibility to abandon Christ's teaching on divorce/remarriage; it is the responsibility of those living in adultery to repent and stop living in adultery, either by separating, by living as brother/sister, or by pursuing the annulment (and if they are denied the annulment, to separate or live as brother/sister)..[/quote] Norseman, I am praying fo my sister and will be looking into finding a priest who will be understanding if my sister decides to even speak about getting a anulment. As I stated previously she had a nervous breakdown during her divorce. It was a very difficult time for her and our family. She has told me and was adamant that she does not want to dig up the past and relive those memories. Edited July 2, 2009 by "Kyrie eleison" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 As to abusive parents that aren't abusive until later, sometimes, when a parent was themselves abused, the issue doesn't come up until their child is the age they were when they were abused. For those who were physically abused, that can mean they become physical abusers. For those who were sexually abused, they may not even remember the abuse until then. It is one of the reasons that priests are now required to ask if someone has abuse issues in the past when doing marriage prep. It might not be an issue at the time of the marriage, but can pop up later. That's what happened with my husband's first marriage. She lied to the priest about not having been abused, and later it came out of no where, and she basically took off to Honk Kong and started living on the streets. She filed for divorce, he wanted to try counseling, and slept in someone's basement for months to avoid the process server, but finally he conceded that there wasn't a marriage to save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachael Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 (edited) [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1908166' date='Jul 2 2009, 10:58 AM']You are correct. Many do not show any signs of having abusive behaviors until well into the marriage. My father was abusive towards me in the same way. Both physically and emotionally. I can understand your experience. He also did not show any signs of this before my mother married him... in fact, I often think I triggered this in him... I was talking more about those instances (and I wonder if this is the majority of the time,) where women marry abusive boyfriends. Those cases where men have definitely shown signs... I know plenty of young ladies in my own circle of friendships and acquaintances, who, having been hurt so often in their dating years, wind up marrying the abusive boyfirend. I never understood this... But I guess, there is that strong committment factor, where the women actually believe they can change their man... or, no matter what they do, they will always stick to them, even if it means being brutalized and destroyed... Something else has happened to relationships in light of the "sexual revolution" of the '60s. In my own experience, I have met and dated several men, and almost all of them believed that consummation was necessary to have a true relationship! When I wouldn't put out, the relationship always fell through. These men did not last long in my life. Because of the sexually saturated society we live in, I get the feeling most men of our age do not respect women at all---that they have such a skewed vision of the true beauty and dignity of women... It is very difficult to find that special man who has a great love of God and a great respect and love for their woman. I know they are out there, but they are few and far between. The Sexual Revolution was supposed to "liberate" women. All it really has done is force most women to fall into a hedonistic image that she was never supposed to fill. It has actually bound us females into chains... I think this society we were raised in and the age we live in have so eroded the way men and women view each other that this is yet another problem that has caused marital stress and breakdown.[/quote] When it comes to an abusive situation, those being abused or are around it are often in denial. My mother, God Bless her, would never admit to the situation that my father has put me through in the past 10+ years. Or she claims that he's 'had a rough life.' [i]Right.[/i] I know that many people within an abusive situation also experience a certain sense of guilt as well. Edited July 2, 2009 by rachael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Hugs to Rach and everyone who has gone through the wringer of abuse. It's never happened to me, but I've seen how it can wreck lives. Prayers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 By the way, Kyrie, what your daughter said about the bracelet was awesome! I wish I had that knowledge when I was her age; it would have saved me a lot of hardship that came when I left the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 (edited) [quote name='rachael' post='1908440' date='Jul 2 2009, 06:34 PM']When it comes to an abusive situation, those being abused or around it are often in denial.[/quote] Additionally, abuse situations can be compared to a lobster boiling in a pot. The heat gets turned on, but it gets hot slowly and steadily without notice until it is too late. In other words, it starts out small, then progressively grows worse, and in between it is always the abused is blamed (maybe if you cleaned your room better, or if you didn't drop the ball, etc. etc. but never the fault of the drunk who comes home after 8 hours at the bar [/sarcasm]). It is also not helpful that people are made to feel like bad Catholics by being told to just "offer it up" or "its just your cross, shut up and bear it" or being told about a saint that was abused and just "took it" or that if they just stick with the abuser they will win them over to the faith or that if they don't forgive the abuser immediately they cannot receive Holy Communion or say the Our Father. Edited July 2, 2009 by Norseman82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachael Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 [quote name='MissyP89' post='1908451' date='Jul 2 2009, 05:43 PM']Hugs to Rach and everyone who has gone through the wringer of abuse. It's never happened to me, but I've seen how it can wreck lives. Prayers.[/quote] I don't need hugs. The only reason I say anything is in hopes of giving some insight and maybe helping others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 [quote name='rachael' post='1908473' date='Jul 2 2009, 06:03 PM']I don't need hugs. The only reason I say anything is in hopes of giving some insight and maybe helping others. [/quote] Everyone can use hugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregoriana of Nyssa Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1908166' date='Jul 2 2009, 10:58 AM']You are correct. Many do not show any signs of having abusive behaviors until well into the marriage. My father was abusive towards me in the same way. Both physically and emotionally. I can understand your experience. He also did not show any signs of this before my mother married him... in fact, I often think I triggered this in him... I was talking more about those instances (and I wonder if this is the majority of the time,) where women marry abusive boyfriends. Those cases where men have definitely shown signs... I know plenty of young ladies in my own circle of friendships and acquaintances, who, having been hurt so often in their dating years, wind up marrying the abusive boyfirend. I never understood this... But I guess, there is that strong committment factor, where the women actually believe they can change their man... or, no matter what they do, they will always stick to them, even if it means being brutalized and destroyed... Something else has happened to relationships in light of the "sexual revolution" of the '60s. In my own experience, I have met and dated several men, and almost all of them believed that consummation was necessary to have a true relationship! When I wouldn't put out, the relationship always fell through. These men did not last long in my life. Because of the sexually saturated society we live in, I get the feeling most men of our age do not respect women at all---that they have such a skewed vision of the true beauty and dignity of women... It is very difficult to find that special man who has a great love of God and a great respect and love for their woman. I know they are out there, but they are few and far between. The Sexual Revolution was supposed to "liberate" women. All it really has done is force most women to fall into a hedonistic image that she was never supposed to fill. It has actually bound us females into chains... I think this society we were raised in and the age we live in have so eroded the way men and women view each other that this is yet another problem that has caused marital stress and breakdown.[/quote] I agree. I've been noting lately how these days it seems women are supposed to dress sexy, look sexy, and do whatever the guy wants in the bedroom, or "he'll find somebody younger who WILL do" whatever sex act he requires. I agree fully with the branch of feminism that says we should be respected as individuals, not sex objects. But it often seems that this branch has lost out to hedonism. I was once with a guy who was Catholic and said he was "saving himself" for marriage, but he was addicted to porn and had already engaged in various types of sex acts which he insisted were "not sex." I had hoped that a Christian man would respect me and be a good husband--we were engaged--but this was not the case. He wanted all sorts of things I didn't want to do in the bedroom and belittled me and tried to force me into them, abused me emotionally....And when the breakup came, he found ways to make his friends think *I* was the cause. I won't go into details, but "abuse by proxy" came into play here. So whenever I come across some website or blog from some guy who thinks that women should just put out however a man wants if they want to keep him, it makes me sick. I even discovered recently that there are guys who want their women to (trying to keep the post PG-rated) shave in places that aren't supposed to be shaved. It's like they want them to look like little girls. It's deplorable what goes on these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregoriana of Nyssa Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Norseman82' post='1908472' date='Jul 2 2009, 06:02 PM']Additionally, abuse situations can be compared to a lobster boiling in a pot. The heat gets turned on, but it gets hot slowly and steadily without notice until it is too late. In other words, it starts out small, then progressively grows worse, and in between it is always the abused is blamed (maybe if you cleaned your room better, or if you didn't drop the ball, etc. etc. but never the fault of the drunk who comes home after 8 hours at the bar [/sarcasm]). It is also not helpful that people are made to feel like bad Catholics by being told to just "offer it up" or "its just your cross, shut up and bear it" or being told about a saint that was abused and just "took it" or that if they just stick with the abuser they will win them over to the faith or that if they don't forgive the abuser immediately they cannot receive Holy Communion or say the Our Father.[/quote] ...Or Protestants being told they should stay with the abuser and "submit" and if they're killed it's for God's glory because they did their duty.... Remember when Amy Grant divorced Gary Chapman? Oh, the fallout! The things people wrote about her and still write to CCM Magazine or on websites! Yet I did a little poking around on the Web, and there is evidence that Chapman mistreated her. How much of that is true I don't know, but it shows why we shouldn't pillory a person for divorcing when they've tried and tried and just can't take it anymore. Edited July 3, 2009 by Gregoriana of Nyssa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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