cappie Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 The Society of St Pius X has defied a Vatican order by ordaining three priests in southern Germany on Saturday. A further eight priests and 10 deacons are to be inducted today by the group at its base in Econe, Switzerland in a ceremony already declared "illegitimate" by the Catholic Church. The ordinations come five months after Pope Benedict XVI lifted the excommunication of four of the society's bishops, including Holocaust denier Richard Williamson. The lifting was meant as the first step in a process of reconciliation with the fundamentalist group. About 1,200 people attended Saturday's ceremony at Zaitzkofen near the Bavarian city of Regensburg which saw a Swede, a Pole and a Swiss ordained priests. A priest Stefan Frey, said the society finds itself in a "grey area" with regard to religious law, and deplored the fuss surrounding the ordinations. The Pope said in March that while the bishops excommunicated by his predecessor John Paul II have been "invited" back into the fold, they "do not (yet) legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone _ Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 So much for obedience... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Reconciliation can't be a one way street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus te Amat Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 The ordinations in the United States went ahead as scheduled. Most of the lay people don't even have any idea of what the Pope is saying in regards to them. What does Obedience mean to them, anyway? Be obedient to your priest, disobey the Pope? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 No-one expected the SSPX bishops not to perform the ordinations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone _ Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1904607' date='Jun 28 2009, 06:45 PM']No-one expected the SSPX bishops not to perform the ordinations.[/quote] Point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 This is not going to harm the dialogue with the Vatican, since the officials at the Vatican knew that this was what would happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1904609' date='Jun 28 2009, 07:47 PM']This is not going to harm the dialogue with the Vatican, since the officials at the Vatican knew that this was what would happen.[/quote] I disagree. I think that many at the Vatican will feel this is a slap in the face in response to an extended hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1904615' date='Jun 28 2009, 07:55 PM']I disagree. I think that many at the Vatican will feel this is a slap in the face in response to an extended hand.[/quote] This shows that you haven't been following the other recent news about the SSPX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1904618' date='Jun 28 2009, 07:58 PM']This shows that you haven't been following the other recent news about the SSPX.[/quote] No it means that I interpret the news differently than you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone _ Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1904615' date='Jun 28 2009, 06:55 PM']I disagree. I think that many at the Vatican will feel this is a slap in the face in response to an extended hand.[/quote] True. They didn't want the ordinations to go through--otherwise they wouldn't have ordered them to not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 From [url="http://whispersintheloggia.blogspot.com/2009/06/love-lost-in-translation.html"]Whispers in the Loggia[/url]: Saturday, June 27, 2009 Against this backdrop, another "impending" document has taken center-stage in some circles: a motu proprio placing the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei -- the Vatican liaison to the traditionalist communities (most notably the Society of St Pius X) -- under the oversight of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and its prefect, SoCal's own Cardinal William Levada. Said to be "imminent" by both the SSPX's Bishop Bernard Fellay (who said he was told to expect it before June 20) and the Holy See itself in its prior declaration that the Swiss fraternity's currently underway priestly ordinations would be considered "illegitimate," the move is seemingly experiencing a hold-up of its own... and in one of his recent "Newsflashes" from Rome, Inside the Vatican's Bob Moynihan offers one possible reason why: According to one friend here, "Behind the pretext of changing Ecclesia Dei, and merging it into the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the Pope wants to reopen a theological dialogue concerning Vatican II." "What do you mean?" I asked. "The Second Vatican Council provoked an earthquake in the Church," my friend said. "The clergy, the laity, and the Vatican itself — everything was shaken. And now, 45 years later, there is only one group which wants a thorough debate on the meaning of the conciliar documents: the Society of St. Pius X. And the purpose of moving Ecclesia Dei under the CDF is to prepare the way for a thorough debate on the conciliar documents." "So what is the problem with that?" I asked. "Look," my friend said. "The document regulating the role of Ecclesia Dei is all written. It has three parts: 1) some technical points concerning how it will function; 2) some measures about its relationship to the CDF, within the CDF; and 3) an outline of a program for discussing Vatican II and how the Council should be interpreted in keeping with the perennial tradition of the Church." "And?" I asked. "That's the problem." "What's the problem?" I asked. "Some people don't want these questions opened up again."... Benedict, knowing that the Second Vatican Council was a watershed in the history of the Church, and knowing also that the interpretation of the Council has led in some unexpected and erroneous directions, has decided to face the basic problem — the problem of the interpretation of Vatican II — by placing the Ecclesia Dei commission in the heart of the most important doctrinal office in the Church, in the CDF. And yet, for some reason, the implementation of that decision is being delayed. Delays and all, as always, stay tuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 It doesn't seem like the Holy See views the ordinations as a major barrier to dialogue if there is going to be a motu proprio establishing talks between the Holy See and the SSPX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 People behind the scenes are delaying things because they don't think this is a good time for more earthquakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1904647' date='Jun 28 2009, 08:18 PM']People behind the scenes are delaying things because they don't think this is a good time for more earthquakes.[/quote] However the "people behind the scenes" feel, the Pope himself wants these talks to happen. Motu proprio [i]does[/i] mean "by his own initiative". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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