Children Of Homosexuals

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='hugheyforlife' post='1902360' date='Jun 26 2009, 04:42 PM'](emphasis mine)

i have nothing to add except this:
the Church does not teach against homosexuality. the Church teaches against homosexual relations.[/quote]

The Church [i]does [/i]teach that homosexual inclinations are "objectively disordered" (cf. [i]Catechism of the Catholic Church[/i], no. 2358).

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1902370' date='Jun 26 2009, 04:51 PM']The Church [i]does [/i]teach that homosexual inclinations are "objectively disordered" (cf. [i]Catechism of the Catholic Church[/i], no. 2358).[/quote]
What I implied in my statement was that the Church may view homosexuality as being against natural law but they do not declare it to be unreal nor do they teach that homosexuality, in and of itself, is a sin. It is taught that only when a person acts on homosexual thoughts/desires that they act in sin. The homosexual tendencies may be disordered, but the disorder is not sinful.

eta: The reason I posted was because I thought there was not enough care taken in word choice on Red's part. Homosexuality (in the sense of the "disorder," as taught by the Church) is not a sin and is not usually that with which men and women disagree. Rather, it is usually the teaching on homosexual [i]relations[/i] which separates the people from the Church.

I could be entirely mistaken; Red might have meant exactly what she said. When I read it however, my little red flag went up. So I responded.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='hugheyforlife' post='1902360' date='Jun 26 2009, 03:42 PM'](emphasis mine)

i have nothing to add except this:
the Church does not teach against homosexuality. the Church teaches against homosexual relations.[/quote]


[quote name='hugheyforlife' post='1902384' date='Jun 26 2009, 04:02 PM']What I implied in my statement was that the Church may view homosexuality as being against natural law but they do not declare it to be unreal nor do they teach that homosexuality, in and of itself, is a sin. It is taught that only when a person acts on homosexual thoughts/desires that they act in sin. The homosexual tendencies may be disordered, but the disorder is not sinful.

eta: The reason I posted was because I thought there was not enough care taken in word choice on Red's part. Homosexuality (in the sense of the "disorder," as taught by the Church) is not a sin and is not usually that with which men and women disagree. Rather, it is usually the teaching on homosexual [i]relations[/i] which separates the people from the Church.

I could be entirely mistaken; Red might have meant exactly what she said. When I read it however, my little red flag went up. So I responded.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
thanks. chalk my mistake up to tiredness. i'll edit my original post.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='jkaands' post='1902167' date='Jun 26 2009, 01:33 PM']Rome isn't going to change its opinion about your sexuality or the marriage, and therefore will teach the child that his/her parents--as homosexuals living together, which assumes they're sexually active--are in a state of mortal sin.[/quote]

That is because the Church speaks with the voice of Jesus Christ.

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='OraProMe' post='1902024' date='Jun 26 2009, 08:48 AM']Well I plan on having a family when I'm older and adopting kids. I also plan to raise those kids Catholic. At the moment I don't receive the sacraments but do attend Mass, say the rosary, adoration etc. But my question is: Will the Church baptize a child of a same sex couple, first communion and confirm them?[/quote]

That's fantastic that you pray the rosary and go to mass. Keep it up

As far as the Church baptizing the child of a same-sex couple... isn't that a major reason for God parents? To help the parents in setting a good Christian example?

I like this thread. It's a good question.

[BG45]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1902514' date='Jun 26 2009, 10:07 PM']That's fantastic that you pray the rosary and go to mass. Keep it up

As far as the Church baptizing the child of a same-sex couple... isn't that a major reason for God parents? To help the parents in setting a good Christian example?

I like this thread. It's a good question.[/quote]

So far I've enjoyed reading the responses, because I quite honestly wouldn't have a clue about it.

[OraProMe]

HEY GUYS CAN YOU NOT DISCUSS THE MORALITY OF HOMOSEXUALITY HERE PLEASE ?

Res, I don't want to become straight and I doubt I could if I tried anyway.

Norseman, how can you say posting an article about why a marriage is good for children addresses my question? I asked if the Church would administer the sacraments of initiation to children of homosexual couples, not if the Church approved of homosexual or single parent families.

"Single parent style" was in reference to Catherines story about lesbians in her parish baptising their son/daughter and in the registry it was put down as "single parent".

So lets drop that, or start your own thread. Okay?

Yeah, thanks for the answers everyone else.

Edited June 27, 2009 by OraProMe

[Sojourner]

How can you ask us to avoid discussing the morality of homosexuality? It's a central issue in your question. Otherwise you wouldn't be asking the question.

My understanding is that the Church does not condone baptizing children of homosexual parents, but will do it under certain circumstances. See CNA article [url="http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=4413"]here[/url].

In the referenced article, the cardinal references something in canon law that prevents baptism of a child of homosexual parents (at least one of whom is an adoptee), but I couldn't find it. There are prescriptions about how the event should be recorded as far as parentage, so maybe he's referring to that. The other possibility is that he was referring to Can. 868 Section 1.2, which states that when baptizing a child, there must be a "founded hope" that the child will be raised in the Catholic Church. So, if a couple is living in blatant sin, as would be the case of either a homosexual couple or an unmarried straight couple living in the same house, a priest could relatively easily make the case for delaying the baptism until the situation is remedied.

Godparents alone are not enough to provide the proper grounding for a child. Although parents and godparents have the same responsibility to raise the child in the faith, it is first the responsibility of the parents to do so. If the parents are not themselves reconciled to Catholic teaching, and they have made this clear by their life choices, it would seem to me to be grounds for the priest to refuse baptism.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='OraProMe' post='1902657' date='Jun 27 2009, 05:47 AM']HEY GUYS CAN YOU NOT DISCUSS THE MORALITY OF HOMOSEXUALITY HERE PLEASE ?

Res, I don't want to become straight and I doubt I could if I tried anyway.

Norseman, how can you say posting an article about why a marriage is good for children addresses my question? I asked if the Church would administer the sacraments of initiation to children of homosexual couples, not if the Church approved of homosexual or single parent families.

"Single parent style" was in reference to Catherines story about lesbians in her parish baptising their son/daughter and in the registry it was put down as "single parent".

So lets drop that, or start your own thread. Okay?

Yeah, thanks for the answers everyone else. [/quote]

You need to learn that, no matter how hard one tries, one cannot direct his thread in the direction he wishes. Others will discuss what they wish in the thread, even if what they are discussing is merely related to the original topic and not the original topic itself.

[mommas_boy]

Hi OraProMe!

I have to say that I find your question an interesting one. It's the kind of pastoral conundrum that is important to ask.

On the one hand, we have the child(ren) to think about: baptism is not for show; the graces present in the Sacrament are real, and necessary. So necessary that the Church is abhorrent to wait until the child is of an age to understand the significance of the Sacrament. The Sacrament is not [b]about[/b] significance; it is about the efficacy of the ritual and the graces that it provides. It's about making this child a child of God, and welcoming them into the Church. It is about cleansing them of original sin. This is not merely a sign; this is an [b]efficacious symbol[/b] -- a sign that actually performs what it represents. I cannot imagine a Church that would want to deny a child these graces because of their parents.

On the other hand, there is the promise of the parents. There is the family that the child is brought up in. There is the potential for scandal. Lil Red asked an important question: if you are willing to disagree with the Church on an issue of morality because it is convenient for you to do so, what else might you be willing to disagree with later on? We then turn back to the child, will the child grow up confused about morality? Will the child view morality as being composed of some issues that are good, and others can be tossed aside? Will they seek to create their own morality composed of issues that are convenient to them? It may seem a slippery slope, but have you not yourself tossed aside an issue of morality, because it is inconvenient for you to accept Church teaching on homosexual relations?

Still, no parent is morally perfect. Do we deny their children the Sacraments? I have to say that I quite like the idea posed by IcePrincessKRS: private baptism so as to avoid scandal.

[b]I must, however, commend you on the continued fervency of your faith.[/b] Many would be driven away from the Church from what must feel so antithetical to you. I have many gay friends who describe their orientation as not a part of them (and certainly not all of them), but as a single thread that is woven into every part of them. Thus, it's easier said than done to cast an SSA orientation aside; it's in you, perhaps indelibly, the same way that my straight orientation is in me at such a basal level. And if it is so integral to you, then it must be difficult to reconcile that with Church Teaching. You, however, have such a strength of resolve that you not only continue in your faith, but also wish to ensure that your children are brought up in that same faith. This is admirable, even if it is misguided. [b]For this reason, I hold you in very high regard.[/b]

Still, as your brother in Christ, I must challenge you. You say that you disagree with Church Teaching on homosexual relations, yet you remain Catholic. I must ask you why? Please do not misinterpret my question as an invitation to leave the Catholic Faith; instead, it is an invitation to search yourself for an answer to the question: what about my Catholic identity compels me so strongly to remain Catholic?

[VeniteAdoremus]

There is so much awesome in the above post that I fear to even say it.

[quote]Still, as your brother in Christ, I must challenge you. You say that you disagree with Church Teaching on homosexual relations, yet you remain Catholic. I must ask you why? Please do not misinterpret my question as an invitation to leave the Catholic Faith; instead, it is an invitation to search yourself for an answer to the question: what about my Catholic identity compels me so strongly to remain Catholic?[/quote]

That's a [i]very[/i] good question and if you're willing to answer it in public, I would also be interested. You touched upon it earlier, and it would be lovely to hear more (even though it's probably a story-in-progress, as with all of us).

[tinytherese]

This reminds me of a couple threads.

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=93169&pid=1850806&st=260&#entry1850806"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...p;#entry1850806[/url]

And also another one where the same poster who began that first thread asked what he should do since he was gay and Catholic. That was a really great thread. It gave a lot of fantastic advice, like how "praying the gay away" doesn't work in the end because it is suppression but meditating on the beauty of what God has designed (Theology of the Body) for a long period of time can often lead to an awakening of different sex attraction.

[MissyP89]

To answer the original question, considering that the Church is the source of grace through Christ, I sincerely doubt they'd NOT baptize a baby whose parents were gay. It's not as if the child has done any wrong. It wouldn't be any different than baptizing a child born out of wedlock, IMO.

[OraProMe]

[quote name='mommas_boy' post='1902861' date='Jun 27 2009, 03:18 PM']Still, as your brother in Christ, I must challenge you. You say that you disagree with Church Teaching on homosexual relations, yet you remain Catholic. I must ask you why? Please do not misinterpret my question as an invitation to leave the Catholic Faith; instead, it is an invitation to search yourself for an answer to the question: what about my Catholic identity compels me so strongly to remain Catholic?[/quote]

Well, as VeniteAdoremus said it's a work in progress but I'll try to answer. I've tried to understand the Churches position and even followed them for a time. No matter how much I study or pray I cannot give an internal assent to the Church on the matter. Every time I read about it in the catechism, articles, catholic publications, whatever it's like every part of my being just starts protesting, not in an angry way. More a "This isn't write. It's just not. They have absolutely no idea" kind of way. I just can't understand why God would make anyone gay if homosexuality is a disorder and un-natural. I know people here will say "he didn't make anyone gay" but that goes against not only my own experience but also psychological research (But that's not what you asked so I wont go into it).

I'm happy being gay and even if I could change it, I wouldn't. This is the way God created me, it's not something that needs to be "corrected" or suppressed. Doing that is what feels un-natural to me.

So if the Church is wrong on homosexuality what's that mean about the rest of the magisterium? Is Her other moral teaching infallible? Is She infallible at all? Does conscience trump ecclesial authority? I mean if even one iota of the magisterium is wrong then that throws her entire infalliblity into question, right? I don't know. It's something I'll have to figure out and come to a conclusion about but at the moment I don't know.

However I do know that I love the Mass, I love the Faith, I love the saints, I love Pope Benedict, I love the Eucharist, I love Our Lady, I love the Rosary, I love Holy Hour, I love adoration, I love priests, I love nuns, I love prayer, I love confession and I love God.

I'm not about to give all that up.

Edited June 28, 2009 by OraProMe

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='tinytherese' post='1903048' date='Jun 27 2009, 06:49 PM']This reminds me of a couple threads.

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=93169&pid=1850806&st=260&#entry1850806"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...p;#entry1850806[/url]

And also another one where the same poster who began that first thread asked what he should do since he was gay and Catholic. That was a really great thread. It gave a lot of fantastic advice, like how "praying the gay away" doesn't work in the end because it is suppression but meditating on the beauty of what God has designed (Theology of the Body) for a long period of time can often lead to an awakening of different sex attraction.[/quote]
It probably reminds you of that thread because it's the same person.