Lil Red Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 +J.M.J.+ [url="http://www.osv.com/tabid/7621/itemid/4997/Experts-debate-Christopher-Wests-theology-of-the.aspx"]OSV[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zunshynn Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 There were several references (in the replies at the bottom) to West defending sodomy... does anyone know what that was referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 [quote name='zunshynn' post='1897864' date='Jun 21 2009, 05:48 PM']There were several references (in the replies at the bottom) to West defending sodomy... does anyone know what that was referring to?[/quote] It is just one of the many "objective" concerns that Dr. Schindler spoke about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 I read the article kind of quickly... maybe I missed it. Did he address the debate he's sparked about whether or not he approves of sodomy? It seems like a rather more central part of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommas_boy Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1898102' date='Jun 21 2009, 11:20 PM']I read the article kind of quickly... maybe I missed it. Did he address the debate he's sparked about whether or not he approves of sodomy? It seems like a rather more central part of this.[/quote] I didn't see anything in this article in regards to sodomy within the article itself. The only reference that I found in regards to sodomy was in the comments: [quote]Christopher West's books contain obscene comparisons of the spiritual to the carnal. He mixes in the sacred with the profane. He has taught that [b]sodomy between the married is acceptable[/b]. This is all grave sin.[/quote] So long as neither spouse intends for the marital embrace to [b]culminate[/b] during anal sex, I don't see anything objectively wrong with it. Foreplay is not grave sin (or sin at all), so long as it remains foreplay. Still, I'm not certain [b]why[/b] a couple would want to. More on topic, I'm not aware of any place where West specifically advocates anal sex for the married. I am, however, aware of him advocating foreplay in general (redacted to be more safe for youngsters): [quote name='Good News About Sex and Marriage, pp 90-91']In fact, if the wife’s [climax] isn’t achieved during the natural course of foreplay and consummation, it would be the loving thing for the husband to stimulate his wife to climax thereafter (if she so desired).[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XIX Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 [quote name='zunshynn' post='1897864' date='Jun 21 2009, 08:48 PM']There were several references (in the replies at the bottom) to West defending sodomy... does anyone know what that was referring to?[/quote] Yeah... I have a very strong feeling that such people are ironically proving West's point that he has been taken out of context. I'm 99% sure that C-West does not approve of sodomy...and 100% sure that he doesn't approve of Hugh Hefner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scardella Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 I still fail to see any substantive, specific criticism of West's work besides the singular charge that he somehow condones sodomy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zunshynn Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 (edited) [quote name='scardella' post='1898487' date='Jun 22 2009, 08:29 AM']I still fail to see any substantive, specific criticism of West's work besides the singular charge that he somehow condones sodomy.[/quote] They think he talks about sex too much. I agree that he's very focused about his subject. His references to things like Hugh Hefner and popular culture are valuable for a culture that has grown accustomed to seeing these things to see why the problem has arisen and that there is an answer to that. It is unfortunate that those references are being skewed and taken out of context... And to those who criticize him for not talking about the theology of the body in the well-rounded subject that it is... honestly, HIS focus is offering an introduction to the subject. His work is supposed to help those that would not initially pick up the actual catechesis to understand this... which... I seem to remember John Paul II himself ASKING men and women to do. Of course it's a good thing when people move deeper into TOB than West's introductory materials, which I'm sure he would want too, but that does not mean his work is useless or wrong. It's a necessary aspect, but I don't think he ever claimed to be all anyone ever needed to understand everything about TOB. It almost sounds like there's some jealousy about the success of his work. But someone who is trying to reach the more serious students of the catechesis should not expect to have a lot of media success... and if there was nothing introductory to it popular in the media, it might prevent a lot of people from being exposed to it well enough for it to have an effect on them. Edited June 22, 2009 by zunshynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinytherese Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Oh dear, I sense that another debate regarding Chris West's works shall start again on here and that this thread will eventually close because of inappropriate debating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 [quote name='tinytherese' post='1898757' date='Jun 22 2009, 03:09 PM']Oh dear, I sense that another debate regarding Chris West's works shall start again on here and that this thread will eventually close because of inappropriate debating.[/quote] Possibly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zunshynn Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Sorry, I didn't mean to start a taboo debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoTeckam Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 [quote name='zunshynn' post='1898859' date='Jun 22 2009, 05:46 PM']Sorry, I didn't mean to start a taboo debate. [/quote] We should have a "married people only" board so that we could have an unedited debate about West's theology. That isn'tto say that there are not single people mature enough to handle this debate but it is much harder to make the married folk blush (or lust) when debating specific sexual details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 [quote name='VoTeckam' post='1898876' date='Jun 22 2009, 03:59 PM']We should have a "married people only" board so that we could have an unedited debate about West's theology. That isn'tto say that there are not single people mature enough to handle this debate but it is much harder to make the married folk blush (or lust) when debating specific sexual details.[/quote] I agree that would be ideal. We did try that many moons ago here and in practice it was difficult to achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 The thread that ended up being locked that was a debate about Christopher West was quite good...... right up until it was locked. If anyone missed that thread, it would be really useful to look at it, just to see a pretty good sampling of some things that may not have occured to you. I know that there were things I wouldn't have picked up on otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinytherese Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 [quote name='zunshynn' post='1898859' date='Jun 22 2009, 04:46 PM']Sorry, I didn't mean to start a taboo debate. [/quote] It's not that discussing this topic would be a bad thing, it's just that in the past the debate regarding Christopher West didn't go over smoothly. I don't know if the sodomy issue is ever going to get resolved on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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