Bruce S Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 [quote]John R. Quinn, retired archbishop of San Francisco and [b]former president of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops,[/b] recently called for the reform of the papacy. In a major address at Oxford University, Quinn criticized the centralization of power under Pope John Paul II. Quinn cited, for example, the way the Vatican has been appointing new bishops. "It is not uncommon," he writes, "for bishops of a province to discover that no candidate they proposed has been accepted for approval. On the other hand, it may happen that candidates whom bishops do not approve at all may be appointed."[/quote] This is one area that SHOULD be open to some discussion here. Top down VS peer review, appointments. So? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicAndFanatical Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 who's Bishop? Not mine, he's still alive and kicken.. I havent heard this yet, where is your source? he wants to reform the papacy? Good luck with that. Sounds like another Martin Luther. But I would be interested to see if indeed all the Bishops candidates that were proposed were not picked and the ones they didnt want as Bishops became Bishops..thats kinda odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 [quote name='Bruce S' date='Mar 29 2004, 09:50 AM'] This is one area that SHOULD be open to some discussion here. Top down VS peer review, appointments. So? [/quote] This man is hardly a pillar of orthodoxy Bruce. Sorry. But I would admit there is some room for discussion in terms of the Papacy and the curia. But this is the Bishop's business. The way Rome is currently set up is not absolute. There are disciplines and things which can change. But if one wants to change things to effect a liberal agenda I think this is wrong, but if the goal is fidelity to the Church's teachings and the good of the whole Church I think its fine. For example if and when the Eastern Orthodox are reunited there would likely be changes to the structures surrounding the Papacy. But nothing dogmatic would change, just the secondary things, disciplinary and political. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Quinn seems to be influenced by the conciliarist heresy. That is to say, he belives that the Holy Father does not have full jurisdictional authority. He believes that the Pope is somehow morally bound to consult the bishops and to get thier approval for something before that action becomes "valid". This notion (heresy) is quite prevalent today and terribly mistaken. Vat. I was quite clear that the Holy Father has full jurisdictional power and does not need the consent of any or all of the bishops in order to act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 (edited) [quote name='popestpiusx' date='Mar 29 2004, 10:47 AM'] Quinn seems to be influenced by the conciliarist heresy. That is to say, he belives that the Holy Father does not have full jurisdictional authority. He believes that the Pope is somehow morally bound to consult the bishops and to get thier approval for something before that action becomes "valid". This notion (heresy) is quite prevalent today and terribly mistaken. Vat. I was quite clear that the Holy Father has full jurisdictional power and does not need the consent of any or all of the bishops in order to act. [/quote] Thanks again. This is one of the most dangerous tendencies in the American Church today if you ask me. I like your use of the H word. Edited March 29, 2004 by Laudate_Dominum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 The Pope is guided by Christ in matters of faith and morals. As a successor of Peter his faith has been prayed for. Popes are chosen by Christ. A Bishop calling for a change in the Papacy is like a mayor trying to say that the presidency has too much power. Some bishops are schismatic/heretic and this one could be one of them. His statements in regards to an attack on the Papacy are worthless. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 [color=red][Edited by dUSt: One on one with Bruce should be private][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 (edited) Right you are ironmonk though I am not sure about the amyor/president thing because they both "derive" their power from those under them, via election, admitting of course that ultimately authority comes from God. But that is an entire differnt discussion). Edited March 29, 2004 by popestpiusx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce S Posted March 29, 2004 Author Share Posted March 29, 2004 [color=red][Edited by dUSt: One on one with Jason should be private][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Bruce, To quote the great Doc Holiday, "I'm your huckelberry!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PedroX Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Bruce, Bishop Quinn, is retired not an active Bishop or a man about to become a bishop. He also was known to be a real liberal. His speech is a bit like a retired CEO talking about his former company. Sure he has a unique perspective, but not much that he can actually do about it. peace... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce S Posted March 29, 2004 Author Share Posted March 29, 2004 That WAS "my point" ... There is NO NEED for lockstepping unanimity in the Catholic Church communitIES, not communitY. There is a difference. It is that need to have all the players running the same plays over and over that makes for a bad football team. Sometimes a double reverse is interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 [quote name='popestpiusx' date='Mar 29 2004, 01:07 PM'] Right you are ironmonk though I am not sure about the amyor/president thing because they both "derive" their power from those under them, via election, admitting of course that ultimately authority comes from God. But that is an entire differnt discussion). [/quote] I was just trying to give an example of the ranking level. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 I know! I agree with you. I was just nitpicking. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 [quote name='Jason' date='Mar 29 2004, 11:06 AM'] [color=red][Edited by dUSt: One on one with Bruce should be private][/color] [/quote] i think i'm w/ bruce on this one. yes, bruce is rather fond of pointing out to us the ways in which church authority figures do not practice there faith as they should, but his intentions are usually just to see what we think, rather than to necessarily prove us wrong. as long as he is not offensive, i feel that he is entitled to "stir up" discussion in this way. anyway, that's my 0.02 pax christi, phatcatholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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