Should The U.s. Apologizing For Slavery

[Hassan]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1899939' date='Jun 23 2009, 06:11 PM']I was mostly joking in wanting an apology, because far more than an apology, I would appreciate the rest of the world to realize that it happened. I was looked at like a crazy person in high school when I would mention that my grandma had been in a concentration camp that WASN'T run by the Germans! And at one point I was told by a HISTORY TEACHER that I was making it up.

It kind of goes along with the "If we don't learn history we are doomed to repeat it."[/quote]


I know. But since I had just read an article on the subject in "Foreign Policy" I thought I'd mention it.


Yevgeni Yevtishinko did a very brave thing in witting a poem about a massacre of Jews that the USSR had tried to blame on the Nazi's. It seems like a lot of American's are unaware of the atrocities committed by the Russians, particularly against Jews and the civilians they came across in pushing back the Germans. I wonder if it was sanitized in history texts. Perhaps it would have raised uncomfortable questions about why we would have been "allies" with them at the time.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1900062' date='Jun 23 2009, 06:47 PM']I know. But since I had just read an article on the subject in "Foreign Policy" I thought I'd mention it.


Yevgeni Yevtishinko did a very brave thing in witting a poem about a massacre of Jews that the USSR had tried to blame on the Nazi's. It seems like a lot of American's are unaware of the atrocities committed by the Russians, particularly against Jews and the civilians they came across in pushing back the Germans. I wonder if it was sanitized in history texts. Perhaps it would have raised uncomfortable questions about why we would have been "allies" with them at the time.[/quote]

My dad told me about the Katyn forest massacre.

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' post='1898766' date='Jun 22 2009, 01:16 PM']Celcious stinks..... GO Fahrenheit!!!!

I mean if you are going to use a silly temperature scale at least use Kelvin.[/quote]

You could use the Travis scale.

Freezing is 19.77, boiling is 48.02.

(My year of birth, and the address I had growing up.)

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1900062' date='Jun 23 2009, 07:47 PM']I know. But since I had just read an article on the subject in "Foreign Policy" I thought I'd mention it.


Yevgeni Yevtishinko did a very brave thing in witting a poem about a massacre of Jews that the USSR had tried to blame on the Nazi's. It seems like a lot of American's are unaware of the atrocities committed by the Russians, particularly against Jews and the civilians they came across in pushing back the Germans. I wonder if it was sanitized in history texts. Perhaps it would have raised uncomfortable questions about why we would have been "allies" with them at the time.[/quote]
I always found it interesting in history classes how we were allies through the war and then suddenly we were in the cold war with the USSR, and no one seemed to question WHY. We would watch movies where there were pepole extolling the glories of the Russian armies, and then boom, we're suddenly enemies? I have to say, overall, the extent of the history I've been taught has been lacking. And since I seem to know more about history than many people I know, it scares me! When I finish school and have time to read something other than physical therapy stuff, I hope to get more into history. And hopefully, convince my grandma to write stuff down about her life!

[Socrates]

[quote name='dUSt' post='1897573' date='Jun 21 2009, 01:35 PM']For personal reasons, I hope all black people get paid out of this.[/quote]
I'll presume you're joking here, but some people take that croutons seriously.
The whole idea of "slavery reparations" - paying people based only on the color of their skin concerning an injustice which happened many generations in the past - is absurd.
Should rich blacks be paid at the expense of poor whites?
Especially when the majority of American whites never owned slaves?
Would people like Barrack Obama, whose father was from Kenya, and whose mother was white, and who has no ancestors who were slaves in America, be entitled to payment merely on account of their skin color?
Why should white Americans of post-war European descent have to pay for "reparations"?

And, as the debacle of the "Great Society" welfare state should have taught us, throwing more government money at things does little to solve social problems.

Nothing but the "identity politics" of greed and envy.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' post='1899918' date='Jun 23 2009, 05:57 PM']Apologizing is good. We can all do with more apologizing.

But what does it mean when a "government" apologizes? A bunch of bureaucrats saying they're sorry for the mistakes a bunch of other bureaucrats made ...

To me, personally, it means nothing.[/quote]
Exactly.

Nothing but more silly feel-good politics designed to make everyone feel all warm and fuzzy about the Obama administration.

[Socrates]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1899939' date='Jun 23 2009, 06:11 PM']I was mostly joking in wanting an apology, because far more than an apology, I would appreciate the rest of the world to realize that it happened. I was looked at like a crazy person in high school when I would mention that my grandma had been in a concentration camp that WASN'T run by the Germans! And at one point I was told by a HISTORY TEACHER that I was making it up.

It kind of goes along with the "If we don't learn history we are doomed to repeat it."[/quote]
Anyone that ignorant of recent history has no business teaching it in my book.

The history of Communist oppression is worse than that of the Nazis, and is well-documented for anyone who bothers to do some easy research.

However, what you say is sadly unsurprising, given the politically-correct ignoring of such facts in the liberal "educational" establishment, with its pinko head-in-the-sand "no enemies to the Left" mentality.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1900386' date='Jun 23 2009, 11:53 PM']Anyone that ignorant of recent history has no business teaching it in my book.

The history of Communist oppression is worse than that of the Nazis, and is well-documented for anyone who bothers to do some easy research.

However, what you say is sadly unsurprising, given the politically-correct ignoring of such facts in the liberal "educational" establishment, with its pinko head-in-the-sand "no enemies to the Left" mentality.[/quote]
The only time I heard, in school, about the atrocities committed by the USSR was in German class, when we were learning German history. There wasn't ever really anything even in our BOOKS about what was going on with them at that time. Come to think of it, we never really learned about what the Communists did other than "redistributing wealth."

[Socrates]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1900420' date='Jun 24 2009, 12:14 AM']The only time I heard, in school, about the atrocities committed by the USSR was in German class, when we were learning German history. There wasn't ever really anything even in our BOOKS about what was going on with them at that time. Come to think of it, we never really learned about what the Communists did other than "redistributing wealth."[/quote]
Sadly, and to their shame, many who write the "history" text-books are Commie sympathizers and fellow-travelers.

PC "history" typically preaches more against the evils of "McCarthyism" than it teaches about the very real horrors committed by Communist regimes. One hundred million murdered, and counting.

[Mercy me]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1900376' date='Jun 23 2009, 11:47 PM']I'll presume you're joking here, but some people take that croutons seriously.
The whole idea of "slavery reparations" - paying people based only on the color of their skin concerning an injustice which happened many generations in the past - is absurd.
Should rich blacks be paid at the expense of poor whites?
Especially when the majority of American whites never owned slaves?
Would people like Barrack Obama, whose father was from Kenya, and whose mother was white, and who has no ancestors who were slaves in America, be entitled to payment merely on account of their skin color?
Why should white Americans of post-war European descent have to pay for "reparations"?

And, as the debacle of the "Great Society" welfare state should have taught us, throwing more government money at things does little to solve social problems.

Nothing but the "identity politics" of greed and envy.[/quote]

Exactly!

Also, what about people who's ancestors risked their lives on the underground railroad. How about those people whose ancestors died in the war between the states to put an end to slavery? Should these people be forced to pay?

[Vasilius Konstantinos]

[quote name='apparently' post='1896919' date='Jun 20 2009, 08:30 PM'][url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/18/AR2009061803877.html?hpid=moreheadlines"]Visit My Website[/url]
The U.S. Senate has unanimously passed a resolution apologizing for slavery, making way for a joint congressional resolution and the latest attempt by the federal government to take responsibility for 2 1/2 centuries of slavery.


a apology is wrong, after all, at least 618,000 Americans died in the Civil War, this war ended this sin of slavery, once in for all, not just for the United States but for the entire world.
Slavery existed long before the birth of the U.S. and U.S. can take credit for ending the practice.

what do you say?[/quote]

The United States apologizing for slavery is like Sweden, Norway and Denmark apologizing for all the Viking raids they made on half of the known world during the Middle Ages. Its like Pope John Paul II apologizing for the Inquisition. People need to get over it and stop acting the victim.

I am Native American for the most part. I have a little Euro blood in me but I can purge it out when I can. Anyways, am I to act the victim because European jerks a long time ago beat up and killed my ancestors with thundersticks? Heck no! And no one should either. I wil agree though that ethics laws be applied and stuff like that should never happen again, but this is why we keep record and histories. Lets not change those either, for political reasons as well.

[Maximilianus]

[quote name='Vasilius Konstantinos' post='1900460' date='Jun 24 2009, 01:34 AM']The United States apologizing for slavery is like Sweden, Norway and Denmark apologizing for all the Viking raids they made on half of the known world during the Middle Ages.

I am Native American ...[/quote]
I already demanded an apology from the those countries in my last post for the very reasons you posted.

Part of my cultural make up is Taino indian , so I also demand an apology from the nations in the Caribbean for the persecution of my Taino ancestors by the hands of the Carib tribes.

Heck now that I think about it I want an apology from Irish Americans, they did my peeps wrong when they migrated to New York in the 20th century...It was documented in the film "West Side Story".

Edited June 24, 2009 by Maximilianus

[picchick]

The thing that I don't think the government takes into account is that not all the African Americans are ancestors from slaves. A majority sure but not all. How will they separate that out.

Furthermore, I did not decend from slave owners. My ancestors came over from Ireland and Poland in the 1800's after the whole Civil War stint.

Hasn't America already apologized? We cannot change history. We could apologize a million times but it still will not erase the fact that slavery existed in America. However, we need to learn from history. We saw the devestation that slavery brought about. Why not instead take the apology and turn it into action?

I always thought that people needed to back up words with action to "prove" their emotion. When you say "I love you" you "prove" it by trying to show that person in little ways that you do truly love them. When you say "I am sorry" then the same thing applies. You amend what you did so that it doesn't happen again or you work to stop it.

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1897542' date='Jun 21 2009, 12:53 PM']folks often talk about how we incur the sins of our fathers etc.
if they really mean this, beyond the mere 'theory' that is good and bite size for religious purposes, then i could see arguing that if no one has apologized before, that it should be done at some point due to our obligation there.

didn't the pope eventually apologize for galileo and some of the other things? i do remember there might have been some controvery about the adequacy of his apology, but i think it was there.
so the pope even espouses the above views, i believe.

as far as 'reparation' for things like 'affirmative action' etc, well, that's not so obvious. the supreme court has limited those situations where it's allowed though, to more reasonable areas. so it's not that big of a practical issue, and even in theory, it's reducing the harms of reverse discrmination in a healthy way, i would argue.[/quote]

so ya'll think the pope was just bein PC? or ya just disagree with his philosophy?

why don't ya apply the sins of our father's reasoning?
it doesn't have to be random white guy/polititican to all blacks. it can be politiicans who know their ancesters had slaves, only and expressly apologizing to those former slaves etc

Edited June 24, 2009 by dairygirl4u2c

[Don John of Austria]

Well I had plantation owning, slaveholding ancestors. I also have Union soldier ancestors, and ancestors who had multiple children die on the Union side. Where does that put me?


Of course my plantation owning ancestors had their women raped (this was always treated delicatly, but always i got the impression the little girls were raped too.) also, thier home burned and thier land taken. They ended up as refugees here in SE Texas living on a Bayou, fighting alligators off the pigs. Isn't that punishment enough?

Edited June 24, 2009 by Don John of Austria