Another Reason We Should Convert The Orthodox

[OraProMe]

A soul tainted with mortal sin is sent to hell. Although the Orthodox have proper bishops, priests and the Eucharist they do not have valid confession. Why? Because confession not only relies on the sacerdotal character of the priest but also on jurisdiction, or authority, which can only be passed down from Peter, to diocesan bishops and then to priests. Without this jurisdiction the priest, no matter how valid his ordination, does not have the power to remit sins.

Thus an Orthodox Christian stands a much better chance of going to heaven if he can receive a valid absolution rather than dying with mortal sin on his soul.

[Maggyie]

Hmmmmm I think according to Catholic theology the Orthodox bishops/priests do have jurisdiction.

[OraProMe]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1891254' date='Jun 15 2009, 09:29 AM']Hmmmmm I think according to Catholic theology the Orthodox bishops/priests do have jurisdiction.[/quote]

No, I don't think so. Jurisdiction generally comes with appointment to a particular office, such as a diocesan See.

[Nihil Obstat]

Eastern Christianity understands the nature of sin, meaning mortal versus venial, differently than we do in the west as it is.

[OraProMe]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1891265' date='Jun 15 2009, 09:54 AM']Eastern Christianity understands the nature of sin, meaning mortal versus venial, differently than we do in the west as it is.[/quote]

Yes but truth is not subject to cultural differences, is it?

[Patrick]

[quote name='OraProMe' post='1891273' date='Jun 15 2009, 08:06 AM']Yes but truth is not subject to cultural differences, is it? [/quote]

Isn't that arrogant to say you have both complete knowledge of sin, and culture, and the interaction between them? I think we disagree on whether the Roman Catholic church has a complete knowledge of sin. In addition, many Orthodox believe that Rome has fallen into theological error regarding sin, and its role in salvation. See [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East-West_Schism#Sin.2C_Purgatory_and_the_Immaculate_Conception"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East-West_Sch...late_Conception[/url] for just a skimming of the issues, but from a fairly good, unbiased point of view. In fact, the entire page is very worth reading, to both Catholics and Orthodox.

[Vasilius Konstantinos]

[quote name='OraProMe' post='1891236' date='Jun 15 2009, 08:35 AM']A soul tainted with mortal sin is sent to hell. Although the Orthodox have proper bishops, priests and the Eucharist they do not have valid confession. Why? Because confession not only relies on the sacerdotal character of the priest but also on jurisdiction, or authority, which can only be passed down from Peter, to diocesan bishops and then to priests. Without this jurisdiction the priest, no matter how valid his ordination, does not have the power to remit sins.

Thus an Orthodox Christian stands a much better chance of going to heaven if he can receive a valid absolution rather than dying with mortal sin on his soul.[/quote]

Ever heard of Apostolic Authority?
Orthodoxy has it.

Would you like me to bring a bunch of Orthodox over and tell you that you may not have valid confessions because you are in Schism and Heresy? I think not, and though they could argue it better than most I doubt it would convert you anyways.

The Orthodox Church has us confess outside of a confessional. We confess in front of the Cross of Jesus Christ, usually kneeling and in humility to Christ for our errors. The Priest, once confessed covers our heads as absolution is given, in front of the Cross of Jesus Christ. It is one of the most awesome experiences one can do for their soul, to be able to stand freely once you have given everything over to Him and to never return to that place from which you came from in sin.

And anyways, our baptism and confession is valid. Ask your local Bishop.

I showed the local Catholic Priests this website. They told me to ignore most of the posts which attack Orthodoxy mostly because no one except the Bishops and above may deal ewith the Orthodox in regards to the Faith of Jesus Christ; that there needs to be healing made and arguments brought forth by laity cause more division, arguning over who is right and who is wrong, who is vaild and invalid. Its ridiculous. They suggest that you learn from each other and not debate over which is right, or vaild as we both are valid.

Put Italians and Greeks in the same room and World War III happens. That is why God gave them both their own peninsulas, so as to avoid direct confrontation with each other. We all have different approaches to the same conclusions. Let the Bishops fight it out and let us move on. Can we?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

I'm sorry, but as a theologian, I have to say right now that the Catholic Church accepts the validity of ALL sacraments performed by the Eastern Orthodox. Let's not go throwing around theological theories as fact when we haven't done our research.

As for apostolic authority, it doesn't come through Peter. The apostles were led by Peter and their successors by his, but apostolic authority comes from Jesus Christ, who ordained the apostles, who handed on their authority. The apostles each had the authority to ordain new bishops without seeking St. Peter's consent and the bishops are the ordinaries over their individual dioceses, although in the Catholic Church the pope still has a brotherly sort of leadership (not a parental, overarching leadership).

God bless,

Micah

[Vasilius Konstantinos]

Its all good, Micah/Raphael.
BTW which do you prefer to be called?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Vasilius Konstantinos' post='1891466' date='Jun 15 2009, 02:33 PM']Its all good, Micah/Raphael.
BTW which do you prefer to be called?[/quote]
My real namesake is the Prophet Micah and St. Raphael the Archangel is my patron of choice. Call me by the name of the saint you wish to honor.

[Vasilius Konstantinos]

Kind of hard considering both are honored among the Saints and in His presence. Raphael, as he is your handle, good sir.

[Gregorius]

As far as I was taught, historically the bishops of the Major Cities such as Constantinople, Alexandria, Jerusalem, Antioch, e.t.c., all had complete authority over their own sees and neighboring smaller sees. The Bishop of Rome, St. Peter and his descendants are considered first among equals as Peter is "Prince of the Apostles." However, besides giving the Pope the respect that was due to his office, the Churches in the East Largely solved their own problems without consulting the Pope, which the Pope was alright with. Even in the various Roman Rite dioceses today most matters are still left with the local ordinary to solve.

The Holy Father does not want to control the Eastern Churches nor does he want to destroy their cultures or Rites (those ARE valid, though different [not wrong] than we Roman Catholics are used to!). He simply recognizes the need for unity in God's Holy Church and he wants to do all he can to destroy those walls that divide us. I believe that various Orthodox patriarchs also want to be united, but the differences are mainly doctrinal, so the process will take some time. Not necessarily take the Orthodox faithful out of the churches, but bring the churches together.

Let us continue to pray for unity! As God is One though mysteriously Three, so the church can be one though of many parts!

[Resurrexi]

In his bull [i]Unam Sanctam[/i], Pope Boniface VIII taught:

"Unam sanctam Ecelesiam catholicam et ipsam apostolicam urgente fide credere cogimur et tenere, nosque hanc firmiter credimus et simpliciter confitemur, extra quam nec salus est nec remissio peccatorum." (Denzinger-Schonmetzer 870)

"Urged by faith, we are obliged to believe and to maintain that the Church is one, holy, catholic, and also apostolic. We believe in her firmly and we confess with simplicity that outside of her there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins." (Denzinger 468)

[Patrick]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1891622' date='Jun 15 2009, 02:26 PM']In his bull [i]Unam Sanctam[/i], Pope Boniface VIII taught:

"Unam sanctam Ecelesiam catholicam et ipsam apostolicam urgente fide credere cogimur et tenere, nosque hanc firmiter credimus et simpliciter confitemur, extra quam nec salus est nec remissio peccatorum." (Denzinger-Schonmetzer 870)

"Urged by faith, we are obliged to believe and to maintain that the Church is one, holy, catholic, and also apostolic. We believe in her firmly and we confess with simplicity that outside of her there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins." (Denzinger 468)[/quote]

Stated in the terms of St. Cyprian of Carthage: ""He can no longer have God for his Father who has not The Church for his mother."

This is, of course, why striving for correct ecclesiological thinking is so important.

[Resurrexi]

I was mainly trying to emphasize the last part of the quote "outside of her there is neither salvation [b]nor the remission of sins[/b]."