juchu Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' post='1892121' date='Jun 15 2009, 10:51 PM']God's true call will always be to Rome, as God would not call away from the Truth. [/quote] Since this now is at the debate table, I will answer to this. The point here is that you will never reach understanding about this sentence with a protestant like me, because we have a different concept about "truth" (gospel is truth, Jesus says he is the truth, the way, the light. And not a human-made institution which always has its failures.) But okay, that is a big - never - ending discussion. And with respect on this being a catholic board, and me only being a visitor at the vocation station, which certainly has helped my in discerned to "protestant" religious life, I will not continue this. I just want to draw your attention to the fact that you can easily hurt ppl with such harsh (and in my eyes arrogant) statements. As FSM Sister said, there might be some anglican sisters reading this. And this surely is no great advertise for your Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 [quote name='jkaands' post='1892958' date='Jun 16 2009, 10:23 AM']I have never heard of this in the Catholic Church. My understanding is that intercourse has to be open to the possibility of conception, not that it is forbidden to marry if you are medically infertile. If medically infertile, you are not using artificial means to prevent conception. Any theologians on the phorum who can comment on this?[/quote] Sorry, I think she has an illness and the medication she takes acts as a contraceptive. Or something. I'm not sure and it doesn't really matter, my point is many members here have had to sacrifice in order to follow God, and maybe that is why they don't base their faith as much on emotion and come off as bigoted or absolute. Like I said, it doesn't really matter. It's just an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregorius Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 [quote name='Gregorius' post='1892969' date='Jun 16 2009, 10:35 AM']Thanks be to God that these holy women made this powerful decision! Now the good work that they had already been doing will now be official! Fr. Cutie joined that ecclesial community on the basis that he is not really leaving the church as the Episcopal view is that they are actually part of the Catholic church by their priesthood. Um, no, they have not had a valid priesthood sine Edward VI changed their rite of ordination, no, Rome says they're not, so they aren't. The women Fr. Cutie had been seeing is a divorced women, not annulled, so that is adultery on both their parts. Fr. Cutie had a choice to either give her up or his priesthood up but he spat in his bishop's face and ran off to join the episcopal ecclesial community, where neither he nor the bishop told the archdiocese. It's really not a real choice at all-he's just being selfish, and he's hurting the community he claims to be attached to. Sorry for going off topic. I'll shut up now.[/quote] Whoa, I just missed three pages of texts! Sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 [quote name='juchu' post='1892973' date='Jun 16 2009, 10:44 AM']Since this now is at the debate table, I will answer to this. The point here is that you will never reach understanding about this sentence with a protestant like me, because we have a different concept about "truth" (gospel is truth, Jesus says he is the truth, the way, the light. And not a human-made institution which always has its failures.) But okay, that is a big - never - ending discussion. And with respect on this being a catholic board, and me only being a visitor at the vocation station, which certainly has helped my in discerned to "protestant" religious life, I will not continue this. I just want to draw your attention to the fact that you can easily hurt ppl with such harsh (and in my eyes arrogant) statements. As FSM Sister said, there might be some anglican sisters reading this. And this surely is no great advertise for your Church.[/quote] Juchu, With all due respect, the Truth is never subjective. If there is a lamp on a table, and someone believes that the lamp is one the floor, another believes there is no lamp, yet another believes there's no lamp or table, and so forth. Just because some don't believe in the lamp on the table does not mean there is not a lamp on the table. Jesus founded our Church on St. Peter just under 2000 years ago. That isn't a human made institutition. I suppose it might hurt some (I don't really know how, unless people are so easily hurt that they consider debates against their positions ad hominem attacks, in which case I'd suggest they probably shouldn't present their opinions in a place where they're likely to be questioned or opposed. There may well be some anglican sisters reading this. If they're deciding to come home to Rome, there's probably nothing they've not heard before or disagree with anyway. And if they haven't...well food for thought I guess. [quote name='Grace06' post='1892928' date='Jun 16 2009, 08:16 AM']Being Catholic is not the only way to God. When non-catholics may reading these posts, why must so many continue to be almost insulting to these readers? I don't understand this forum, why members seem to be so absolute in their opinions. That is what I meant by unkind - there seems to be little reaching with a loving welcome.[/quote] Being Catholic IS in fact the only way to God. All Salvation comes through the Catholic Church, whether it's the visible (the Pope and bishops and priests and Eucharist and so forth) or the invisible (all of the other religions that have bits and pieces of the truth). To deny this is to deny our Catholic Faith. This post, though (and this is not meant as an attack on you) seems to embody the ideals of relativism. Saying the truth does [b]not [/b]equate to being mean. Telling someone something false in for the sake of niceness does [b]not[/b] equate to being charitable. We're told to admonish the sinner and instruct the ignorant. Allowing someone to continue in their fallacious ways is not an act of love. The old adage, after all, does say that "The truth hurts". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DameAgnes Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 what a sorry thread this is turning out to be. a blog post on the move, too [url="http://subtuum.blogspot.com/2009/06/all-saints-sisters-doing-it-for.html"]http://subtuum.blogspot.com/2009/06/all-sa...ing-it-for.html[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelF Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 [quote name='OraProMe' post='1892684' date='Jun 16 2009, 04:09 AM']I believe Leo XIII ruled that the Rite used for the ordination of Anglican ministers did not correctly convey the sense of a sacrificial priesthood and thus the form of the sacrament was altered so much that it was no longer valid. So even if there are valid bishops in the Anglican Chuch, if they use the Anglican Rite of ordination then it's still invalid.[/quote] It's even muddier, as some Anglican Bishops and Priests have been ordained by Bishops who [i]do[/i] possess Apostolic Succession (Old Catholics, Polish National Catholic Church, some Orthodox, IIRC, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiyoung Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I just wanted to address something Juchu said earlier--because you are not in communion with the Catholic Church, you should not be receiving the Eucharist. I understand that people have told you it's okay, but unless you are in full communion with the Church you can NOT receive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 [quote name='jiyoung' post='1893695' date='Jun 16 2009, 07:18 PM']I just wanted to address something Juchu said earlier--because you are not in communion with the Catholic Church, you should not be receiving the Eucharist. I understand that people have told you it's okay, but unless you are in full communion with the Church you can NOT receive.[/quote] Thanks- I assumed someone already mentioned it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 [quote name='MichaelF' post='1893681' date='Jun 16 2009, 07:59 PM']It's even muddier, as some Anglican Bishops and Priests have been ordained by Bishops who [i]do[/i] possess Apostolic Succession (Old Catholics, Polish National Catholic Church, some Orthodox, IIRC, etc).[/quote] If said "priests" were "ordained" using the Anglican liturgical books, however, their orders would be invalid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkaands Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 [quote name='Gregorius' post='1892969' date='Jun 16 2009, 09:35 AM']Thanks be to God that these holy women made this powerful decision! Now the good work that they had already been doing will now be official! Fr. Cutie joined that ecclesial community on the basis that he is not really leaving the church as the Episcopal view is that they are actually part of the Catholic church by their priesthood. Um, no, they have not had a valid priesthood sine Edward VI changed their rite of ordination, no, Rome says they're not, so they aren't. The women Fr. Cutie had been seeing is a divorced women, not annulled, so that is adultery on both their parts. Fr. Cutie had a choice to either give her up or his priesthood up but he spat in his bishop's face and ran off to join the episcopal ecclesial community, where neither he nor the bishop told the archdiocese. It's really not a real choice at all-he's just being selfish, and he's hurting the community he claims to be attached to. Sorry for going off topic. I'll shut up now.[/quote] It's not a foregone conclusion that he'll end up an Episcopal priest. He'll have to apply and be accepted like anyone else, and his past is unsavory. I don't think that those running Episcopal seminaries will be thrilled. What with married priests and women priests, the Episcopal seminaries are full, so he'll have to get in line like every one else, and be considered on his 'merits'. Having said this, I must admit that his Hispanic background would be a plus... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Are episcopal seminaries really full over in America o.0? In Australia they make up 25% of the population but they have hardly any seminarians and a Sunday congregation consists of 50 grey haired ladies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Are episcopal seminaries really full over in America o.0? In Australia they make up 25% of the population but they have hardly any seminarians and a Sunday congregation consists of 50 grey haired ladies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 [quote name='jkaands' post='1893777' date='Jun 16 2009, 08:50 PM']It's not a foregone conclusion that he'll end up an Episcopal priest. He'll have to apply and be accepted like anyone else, and his past is unsavory. I don't think that those running Episcopal seminaries will be thrilled. What with married priests and women priests, the Episcopal seminaries are full, so he'll have to get in line like every one else, and be considered on his 'merits'. Having said this, I must admit that his Hispanic background would be a plus...[/quote] I read that he married his girlfriend today. I was hoping that things might calm down and allow him to reconsider his decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 [quote name='jkaands' post='1893777' date='Jun 16 2009, 07:50 PM']It's not a foregone conclusion that he'll end up an Episcopal priest. He'll have to apply and be accepted like anyone else, and his past is unsavory. I don't think that those running Episcopal seminaries will be thrilled. What with married priests and women priests, the Episcopal seminaries are full, so he'll have to get in line like every one else, and be considered on his 'merits'. Having said this, I must admit that his Hispanic background would be a plus...[/quote] +J.M.J.+ Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffpugh Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 [quote name='OraProMe' post='1893793' date='Jun 16 2009, 10:01 PM']Are episcopal seminaries really full over in America o.0? In Australia they make up 25% of the population but they have hardly any seminarians and a Sunday congregation consists of 50 grey haired ladies.[/quote] I sorta don't believe it either. I came from a (low) Anglican background in a small town and my church was hardly full. A couple young families I guess. Still have friends who are Anglican... As for the Queen's religion, I didn't realise she had to hand over the crown if she decides not to be Anglican! What chains Her Majesty has to bear! Wow. I guess the only thing that can break that is if there was no more Anglican Church.... then the Monarchy would have nothing to be the head of. Nevertheless, God Save the Queen! Long live the Pope! Oh, and I'm really surprised there are still Anglican orders around... even more surprised about Lutheran orders. In my ignorance, I thought protestants didn't do celibacy anymore Well, save the Anglo-Catholics. I'll shut up now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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