Mrs. Bro. Adam Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 [quote name='Mrs. Bro. Adam' post='1883027' date='Jun 4 2009, 10:52 AM'][url="http://www.blogger.com/profile/04600912414364976709"]Fra' Lawrence Lew, O.P. (Paul Lew) writes in response to a blogger on this subject.[/url] [quote]We generally consider what we wear, when we go to an important occasion. If we were invited to a banquet or to meet a king, would we not go in our best? Why then, do some dress sloppily when called to the banquet of the Lord and to meet the King of Kings? The traditional notion of Sunday best still holds because one dresses well to grace an occasion, to signify the importance of the event, not to draw attention to oneself. The idea that the Lord knows and loves us and we should thus be familiar with Him and dress as we like (ie sloppily) is nonsense. The Lord is not our chum; He is the Holy One of Israel and sloppy dressing at Mass only reflects the irreverence one holds for God. Some think we should 'come as we are' and I agree. We come bringing to the Lord our brokenness, our sinfulness etc. We come as people in need of God, but that's no excuse to come in rags. The only people who may and should come in rags is the poor and I suspect there are very few of those in most Singaporean parishes. As for the question of 'sexy' dressing I believe that good Catholics should note the Catechism's teaching on modesty and dress accordingly at all times, whether in church or not. After all, would Our Lady bare her midriff or wear skimpy clothes designed to incite lust or attract men's attention? I very much doubt so! The same attention must be given to those who wear T-shirts with inappropriate slogans (eg: FCUK) or images (Pornstar, demons etc) Women who say they dress to feel good about themselves and not for men are being duplicitous. They feel good because they are being looked at and this in itself is a disordered inclination of low self-esteem and self worth. Pope John Paul II's Theology of the Body has much to say on such issues. Granted it is hot in Singapore but let's face it, many many people have no qualms about wandering up and down Orchard in denim jackets and several layers for fashion's sake, so why not cover up decently in our air-conditioned churches? As sacramental people, how we appear is important, just as habits are important for religious; it is truly habit-forming![/quote] [url="http://thresholdofhope.blogspot.com/2005/07/dressing-etiquette-of-catholics.html"]Dressing Etiquette for Mass[/url] [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 [quote name='1 Tim. 2:9-10']Similarly, (too,) women should adorn themselves with proper conduct, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hairstyles and gold ornaments, or pearls, or expensive clothes, 10 but rather, as befits women who profess reverence for God, with good deeds.[/quote] I think that rules out wedding/prom dresses. One thing I keep thinking about is that we come to the Eucharistic feast as a family, with people who are of every socio-economic level. And we are all one in Christ Jesus. When it comes to how we dress, I think this particular verse can be useful in establishing a two-part test each of us can apply individually. On the one hand, we should not knowingly cause others to stumble in sin, hence the modesty prong. On the other hand, we should not flaunt our economic well-being, hence the self-control prong. In other words, our clothing should not, at either end, detract from the message we're proclaiming through our words and actions. Personally, I think it is almost impossible to come up with a standard of dress that will work in every parish community. Jeans are going to be fitting and good in some communities, while in others they will be inappropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shpout Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 maaan so much to read! so many opinions! Personally i belive that if we can start by having people dress 'modestly' respectfully' it would be a great start aka NO shorts as short as underwear PJs Shirts that show more skin than they cover visible butt-cracks and super raggy cloth then that would be a great way to start! (also, about the head coverings, thats old testament stuff, Jesus came and renewed it all! I dont think that it makes you a 'bad' 'unfaithful' Catholic to not wear one, this one can get a bit on my nerves I must admit, I just have a very hard time with the mentality that the people who do wear the head coverings are the only 'true' Catholics. Being Catholic we really need to start judging less (starting with me of course!!) Also something that does bug me at Church is people who wear tshirts from hard metal/sports/music/tv shows etc... that are 'ugly' or too graphic.) I guess all in all we have to be re-educated on being respectful at Church without judging others and making the Mass accessible to all. It is true that there is a lack of respect going on! Also I truely believe that our God become human through Jesus to be more 'accessible' to us, he is not a tyrant or a high and mighty King of old whom no-one could get close to! Ok there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 (edited) [quote name='hugheyforlife' post='1883114' date='Jun 4 2009, 01:15 PM']maybe you and adam should just stand at the door and tell people to go home if you don't deem them dressed well enough to enter the house of the Lord. wonder what God will say about THAT one. might as well. might make you feel better too.[/quote] this happens at St. Peter's in Rome... (not MR. and Mrs. ADam standing at the door, but there are signs and such...) not to mention but this happens at those Catholic parishes that have the guts to tell people how to dress respectfully at Mass... i know that at some convents, if you are dressed inappropriately, the Sisters will hand you proper attire to wear... i guess you would say they were judging people, too? Edited June 4, 2009 by dominicansoul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs. Bro. Adam Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 [quote name='hugheyforlife' post='1883114' date='Jun 4 2009, 12:15 PM']maybe you and adam should just stand at the door and tell people to go home if you don't deem them dressed well enough to enter the house of the Lord. wonder what God will say about THAT one. might as well. might make you feel better too. and while you're at it, why don't you tell them how little respect they have for God! yeah!! hit 'em with a double-whammy. that'll REALLY get 'em thinking! i'm not arguing against a PRIEST informing his PARISHONERS about respect for their bodies as temples of the holy spirit. i AM arguing against lay people JUDGING other people based on what the BELIEVE to be true. you don't know croutons about anyone's intentions or means. you may think you do. you don't. catechizing is one thing. judging is quite another. if the eucharist is as important as you claim, you should focus on that, and not the harley davidson shirt in the fifth pew.[/quote] I am sorry that you feel this way Laura. This thread has long since gone from being about the original intent of the thread and has quickly gone into what it means to dress appropriately for Mass. Did you get a chance to read what the religious brother wrote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 [quote name='Mrs. Bro. Adam' post='1883110' date='Jun 4 2009, 01:12 PM']I'm still waiting for a good reason as to why it is appropriate to dress for Mass in jeans and tennis shoes when there is not an extenuating circumstance [/quote] Did you ask for that? Hmmm... You're not going to get an answer you like. My biggest concern is that people understand why modesty is important, not only in church but everywhere. I don't have an issue with jeans and sneakers. I do care that they are present physically, mentally, and spiritually. I understand the idea of dressing nicely to help yourself in acquiring an appropriate mindset for Mass, but I refuse to judge someone who comes in jeans and sneakers, assuming that their heart is misguided or unloving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shpout Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1883118' date='Jun 4 2009, 01:17 PM']this happens at St. Peter's in Rome... (not MR. and Mrs. ADam standing at the door, but there are signs and such...) not to mention but this happens at those Catholic parishes that have the guts to tell people how to dress respectfully at Mass...[/quote] it happens at most 'tourist' Churches, so Rome, Italy in general, Medj., etc. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1883118' date='Jun 4 2009, 01:17 PM']this happens at St. Peter's in Rome... (not MR. and Mrs. ADam standing at the door, but there are signs and such...) not to mention but this happens at those Catholic parishes that have the guts to tell people how to dress respectfully at Mass... i know that at some convents, if you are dressed inappropriately, the Sisters will hand you proper attire to wear... i guess you would say they were judging people, too?[/quote] asking people to dress modestly is different than asking people not to wear any kind of denim or polyester. sheesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoTeckam Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 The signs at St. Peter's only show what should be COVERED. Everyone here is in agreement that modest clothing is a must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs. Bro. Adam Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 [quote name='hugheyforlife' post='1883124' date='Jun 4 2009, 12:19 PM']Did you ask for that? Hmmm... You're not going to get an answer you like. My biggest concern is that people understand why modesty is important, not only in church but everywhere. I don't have an issue with jeans and sneakers. I do care that they are present physically, mentally, and spiritually. I understand the idea of dressing nicely to help yourself in acquiring an appropriate mindset for Mass, but I refuse to judge someone who comes in jeans and sneakers, assuming that their heart is misguided or unloving.[/quote] Just a question: Would it be ok for someone to present themselves in just jeans, shirt, and tennis shoes to a head of state if they had nicer clothes, plenty of time to dress nicer, as long as their heart was 'in the right place'? Do you think that they'd even be allowed to meet the head of state dressed that way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs. Bro. Adam Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 [quote name='VoTeckam' post='1883131' date='Jun 4 2009, 12:22 PM']The signs at St. Peter's only show what should be COVERED. Everyone here is in agreement that modest clothing is a must.[/quote] What about respectful clothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 [quote name='hugheyforlife' post='1883130' date='Jun 4 2009, 01:22 PM']asking people to dress modestly is different than asking people not to wear any kind of denim or polyester. sheesh.[/quote] oh, sorry, didn't understand you were speaking of a certain fabric... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoTeckam Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 (edited) Sheesh. This is such a circular arguement. I will agree to disagree if everyone would agree that the following list of priorities is in the proper order. 1) Phystical and spiritual presence and reverence 1) Modest Clothing 3) Formal Clothing Please please please tell me we can agree to this? Edit: Let's show the first 2 as a tie... Edited June 4, 2009 by VoTeckam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides quarens intellectum Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 [quote name='Shpout' post='1883117' date='Jun 4 2009, 01:16 PM'](also, about the head coverings, thats old testament stuff, Jesus came and renewed it all![/quote] you know i love you, but that's in the New Testament. [quote name='Shpout' post='1883117' date='Jun 4 2009, 01:16 PM']I dont think that it makes you a 'bad' 'unfaithful' Catholic to not wear one, this one can get a bit on my nerves I must admit, I just have a very hard time with the mentality that the people who do wear the head coverings are the only 'true' Catholics.[/quote] i don't think so, either, but i think we've talked about this before... Back to topic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 did you guys always use the expression "sheesh" 'cos I thought I only used that word? and yes, I agree with your list... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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