Islam 101 - A One Minute Complete Course On Islam

[Winchester]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1889321' date='Jun 12 2009, 08:06 PM']That depends on the Muslim.[/quote]

I know it depends on the person who calls himself a Muslim.

I think it's bizarre trying to reconcile to religions that are at odds over who, exactly is God and who isn't.

[CatholicWing]

[quote name='PeteWaldo' post='1881420' date='Jun 2 2009, 06:01 PM']Surah 4:157 [b]That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus[/b] the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- [b]but they killed him not, nor crucified him[/b], but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, [b]for of a surety they killed him not:-[/b]

It should be crystal clear to all, through the above verse, that Islam is the EXACT OPPOSITE of Christianity. This SINGLE VERSE from the Quran rejects ALL of the prophets and apostles of the New Testament and the WHOLE SUBJECT of the new covenant. No crucifixion, death and resurrection. No shed blood. In spite of the massive, even secular historical record, of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.[/quote]


PeteWaldo!
[font="Impact"][size=7]I AGREE WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/size][/font]

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1889351' date='Jun 12 2009, 09:17 PM']I think it's bizarre trying to reconcile to religions that are at odds over who, exactly is God and who isn't.[/quote]

That's a mighty big hurdle.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1889351' date='Jun 12 2009, 09:17 PM']I think it's bizarre trying to reconcile to religions that are at odds over who, exactly is God and who isn't.[/quote]


I'd probably agree.

In regards to more important matters, I actually rented "The Big Lebowski" it looked very funny

[PeteWaldo]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1888119' date='Jun 10 2009, 09:49 PM']I'm not sure what your source is regarding the claim that "Islam" teaches that a prophet can neve be killed.....[/quote]

This is a widely held view though I don't know if the Quran teaches it.

It is particularly ironic since Mohammed was poisoned to death. He had enslaved a Jewess as a "wife" after killing her husband and family. She waited for years for the opportunity to kill him and finally poisoned his food. At the same time she poisoned a high ranking member of mohammed's reprobates food. He quickly succumbed to the poison, just as Mohammed had put his in his mouth. Mohammed spit his out, but according to the hadith he frequently complained of the effects of the poison and blamed health maladies on the poisoning until his early and untimely death. Though a Muslim will never admit it.

[quote name='Hassan' post='1888119' date='Jun 10 2009, 09:49 PM']...... or that Christian leaders deliberately corrupted the texts.[/quote]

While I don't believe the Quran teaches this, EVERY Muslim must believe it, as the Quran teaches the PERFECT OPPOSITE of the New Testament. Muslims must REJECT ALL of the prophets and apostles of the New Testament in order to follow Mohammed. They also frequently claim that the apostles were unknown, texts were written later by unknown authors, they weren't witnesses of Jesus and all kinds of claims. One verse in particular comes so close to allowing them to see an understanding of a triune God that they claim it was added later to avoid discussing it:

1Jo 5:7 [color="#000080"]For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. [/color]

Even though that verse is embodied throughout the New Testament.

Historically the average Muslim likely didn't have to confront this question as access to the scriptures was limited and they simply took the word of their Imam. Even today most get their understanding of Christianity and the bible from their Imams. They have traditionally been isolated from truth. This is one of the reasons Mohammed prohibited them from making friends with kafir (Christians and Jews) and infidels. And why the sentence for leaving Islam, or committing apostasy, is death.

However the modern Muslim that is out proselytizing on the internet has been confronted with enough scripture to understand that Mohammed WAS, and taught, the EXACT OPPOSITE of Jesus Christ and ALL of the apostles. Thus the claims of bible corruption are necessary.

But there is a trap for those that make such claims.
One of the places where God allowed Mohammed just enough rope to hang himself.
Modern Muslims often cite Nicaea as a time of bible corruption.

Some of the verses from Mohammed's peaceful days before being exiled from Mecca are untenable for Muslims. Though they cite some of them to pretend Islam is a peaceful religion, they are really embarrassed by this verse, recited by their illiterate in the 7TH CENTURY:

Surah 5:47 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

When they make a suggestion of corruption simply tell them that it's too bad they weren't around in the 7TH CENTURY to correct Mohammed's "Allah" before he made such a foolish recommendation. Another that speaks to Jews and Christians:

Surah 5:68 Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over (these) people without Faith.

Even for Muslims:

Surah 4:136 O ye who believe! Believe in Allah and His Messenger, and the scripture which He hath sent to His Messenger and the scripture which He sent to those before (him). Any who denieth Allah, His angels, His Books, His Messengers, and the Day of Judgment, hath gone far, far astray.

Ironically, as they claim the bible to be corrupt, Mohammed's book is such a mess that 71 out of only 114 suras are subject to abrogation.
[url="http://www.beholdthebeast.com/abrogation_quran.htm"]http://www.beholdthebeast.com/abrogation_quran.htm[/url]
Some suras they like to quote to infidels like "no compulsion in religion" are abrogated by over 100 verses that suggest violence against non-Muslims such as:
Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

As we see practiced all around the world today: [url="http://www.thereligionofpeace.com"]http://www.thereligionofpeace.com[/url]
[url="http://www.beholdthebeast.com/great_tribulation.htm"]http://www.beholdthebeast.com/great_tribulation.htm[/url]

Mohammed himself realized what a mess he was making of his book:

Quran 2:106 None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?

It would be comical if it weren't so tragic.
Not abrogated.... just.... substituted!!!.... for something.... better!!!!..... or... er... similar!!!

[quote name='Hassan' post='1888119' date='Jun 10 2009, 09:49 PM']The Qur'an itself mentiones prophets being killed as I recall and there are many different oppinions regarding the former religious texts and thier integrity how they were corrupted, what is left et cetera. Islam has no central teaching authority. Outside of a few major parts there will almost always be some precedent for a different tradition.





I guess that depends on what you mean by compatible.[/quote]

Edited June 13, 2009 by PeteWaldo

[PeteWaldo]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1889314' date='Jun 12 2009, 08:00 PM']To be a Muslim involves an explicit denial of the Trinity;.....[/quote]

The best way to show a Muslim Mohammed's folly in this regard is to point out that they believe that God has a Spirit:

Sura 32:9 But He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him something OF HIS SPIRIT. And He gave you (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give!

Even Mohammed's discussion of the Holy Spirit as labeled in the bible:

Sura 16:102 Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.

You can show them what a liar Mohammed was for accounting God and His Spirit as one God for Muslims, but accounting it as two Gods for Christians.

Mohammed was a liar or they are polytheistic hypocrites by their own measure.

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1889314' date='Jun 12 2009, 08:00 PM']...... therefore, a Muslim cannot be teaching the doctrine of Christ.[/quote]

Indeed NOT. Rather the PERFECT OPPOSITE:

2Jo 1:9 [color="#000080"]Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father [b]and the Son.[/b] [/color]

1Jo 2:23 [color="#000080"]Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also]. [/color]

Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

The perfection of "that spirit of antichrist".
The ONLY anti-another-religion, religion, by design - Satan's design.
The greatest and ONLY UNPARDONABLE sin in Islam (shirk) committed if a Muslim were to confess that Jesus is the Son of God.

1Jo 4:15 [color="#000080"]Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. [/color]

So why is so much of the church trying to cozy up to them, and encourage them, rather than helping them to overcome Mohammedanism?

They deny the shed blood of the only mediator between God and man:
1Timothy 2:5 [color="#000080"]For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; [/color]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1889314' date='Jun 12 2009, 08:00 PM']A pagan has no understanding of Christ, while a Muslim has a heretical notion of Christ, and therefore is encumbered, like an Arian or a Nestorian, by a belief in a false Christ. The pagan is not hindered in this way.[/quote]

Indeed, whether an atheist antichrist or Muslim antichrist:

1Cr 2:14 [color="#000080"]But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. [/color]

Excellent ministry by an Iraqi former Muslim:
[url="http://www.answering-islam.org/"]http://www.answering-islam.org/[/url]
YouTube channels that explore Mohammed and Mohammedanism as revealed through the Quran and Hadith:
podremvc
[url="http://www.youtube.com/user/podremvc"]http://www.youtube.com/user/podremvc[/url]
Ahmed's Quran3
[url="http://www.youtube.com/user/AhmadsQuran3"]http://www.youtube.com/user/AhmadsQuran3[/url]

Edited June 13, 2009 by PeteWaldo

[Winchester]

I've found former Catholics typically know little about their religion or have issues with it that destroy objective evaluation. I reckon it's human nature.

[Hassan]

[quote name='PeteWaldo' post='1889576' date='Jun 13 2009, 07:24 AM']This is a widely held view though I don't know if the Quran teaches it.

It is particularly ironic since Mohammed was poisoned to death. He had enslaved a Jewess as a "wife" after killing her husband and family. She waited for years for the opportunity to kill him and finally poisoned his food. At the same time she poisoned a high ranking member of mohammed's reprobates food. He quickly succumbed to the poison, just as Mohammed had put his in his mouth. Mohammed spit his out, but according to the hadith he frequently complained of the effects of the poison and blamed health maladies on the poisoning until his early and untimely death. Though a Muslim will never admit it.[/quote]

Because the Hadith you are thinking of makes it clear that he did not pie from the poison. You can't have it both ways. And it is not a wide held view for anyone who has actually read the Qur'an, which is quite clear that prophets can be killed.



[quote]It would be comical if it weren't so tragic.
Not abrogated.... just.... substituted!!!.... for something.... better!!!!..... or... er... similar!!![/quote]

A very ironic way to end as that was exactly what I was thinking as I was reading your post. Only I wasn't thinking of Muslims.


I see no point in responding to any more of your post. I had already written what was above and I won't delete it but as I get the distinct feeling that continuing this conversation would, in substance, ammount to talking to a brick wall I think I'll just end it here.

I would advise you to try and study religions from reputable sources rather than internet sites. Being able to regurgitate ignorant cliches and link internet sites does not constitute understanding a religion.

[PeteWaldo]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1889719' date='Jun 13 2009, 12:21 PM']Because the Hadith you are thinking of makes it clear that he did not pie from the poison. You can't have it both ways.[/quote]

It's Islam that has it both ways. That he wasn't effected by the poison yet in other records that he complained of it until his untimely death of fever - how many years later?

But you seem to want to lodge quite a spirited defense of a 7th century, illiterate, pillaging, plundering, murdering, child doing, stepson's wife taking, sex slave capturing, slave pimping, concubine fornicating, bloody imperialistic coward and thief.

A man, and book that are THE EXACT OPPOSITE of Jesus and the New Testament. Whose followers have perpetrated over 13,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks around the world, just since 9-11: [url="http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/"]http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/[/url]

My description of the false prophet has not been challenged and pales in comparison to those that offer a $50,000 reward to anyone who can disprove Sina's claims against the false prophet Mohammed, based on the Mohammedans own books:
[url="http://www.faithfreedom.org/challenge.htm"]http://www.faithfreedom.org/challenge.htm[/url]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1889719' date='Jun 13 2009, 12:21 PM']And it is not a wide held view for anyone who has actually read the Qur'an, which is quite clear that prophets can be killed.[/quote]

It certainly a widely held view for those I have discussions with as part of the way that they excuse away denial of Jesus' crucifixion.

[quote name='Hassan' post='1889719' date='Jun 13 2009, 12:21 PM']A very ironic way to end as that was exactly what I was thinking as I was reading your post. Only I wasn't thinking of Muslims.[/quote]

Another hollow blasphemy against God, like in the thread where I suggested that Mohammed's view of heaven and hell were as that of the child-like imagination of a 7th century desert dwelling illiterate, and you suggested the same was true of the quite literate and inspired writers of God's Word, but offered no support:
[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=94653&view=findpost&p=1883588"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...t&p=1883588[/url]

Where in the New or Old Testaments does an apostle say that he has to stoop to abrogation to bail himself out, and cover his own tracks, as the false prophet Mohammed did? Indeed Mohammed made such a mess of his book he even knew how those that hadn't been brainwashed into Mohammedanism would perceive his nonsense:

Surah 16:101 When We substitute one revelation for another, and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages), they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not.

Even Mohammed knew he would be viewed as a "forger" by those whose brains hadn't been bent by Mohammedanism through the spirit of antichrist.

[quote name='Hassan' post='1889719' date='Jun 13 2009, 12:21 PM']I see no point in responding to any more of your post.[/quote]

Indeed. And as I already expressed in the other thread, because it is pointless for a Christian to have a discussion about the things of the spirit, with a willful unregenerate who is a self-proclaimed agnostic:
[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=94653&view=findpost&p=1884296"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...t&p=1884296[/url]

as God's Word reveals:

1Cr 2:14 [color="#000080"]But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. [/color]

The only reason this post was in the form of a reply to yours, is because you changed your personal icon, and I didn't realize it until after I posted that it was you, whom I had already decided not to converse with.

[quote name='Hassan' post='1889719' date='Jun 13 2009, 12:21 PM']I had already written what was above and I won't delete it but as I get the distinct feeling that continuing this conversation would, in substance, ammount to talking to a brick wall I think I'll just end it here.[/quote]

Perhaps you can see how the bible describes even to you, why it is that your perception of what I say would be as a brick wall. When I quote scripture I quote from the things of the Spirit.
You see, my friend, I am stuck with the Word of God.

1Jo 5:10 [color="#000080"]He that BELIEVETH ON THE SON OF GOD hath the witness in himself: HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT GOD HATH MADE HIM A LIAR; because HE BELIEVED NOT THE RECORD that God gave OF HIS SON.[/color]

But it isn't anything like a brick wall: Hbr 4:12 [color="#000080"]For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. [/color]

A continuing conversation could only result in my invoking even more from God's Word in my support which you can't be expected to understand unless and until you repent.

[quote name='Hassan' post='1889719' date='Jun 13 2009, 12:21 PM']I would advise .....[/quote]

But why should a Christian consider advise from a willful unregenerate?
Before you become offended by the characterization:

John 3:3 [color="#000080"]Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. [/color]

Eze 11:19 [color="#000080"]And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: [/color]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1889719' date='Jun 13 2009, 12:21 PM'].....you to try and study religions from reputable sources rather than internet sites.[/quote]

I quote largely from my own websites, that are formed on the basis of sources like God's Word, as well as Satan's word in the form of the Quran and hadith written through the false prophet Mohammed.

Jhn 3:36 [color="#000080"]He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT THE SON SHALL NOT SEE LIFE, BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDETH ON HIM. [/color]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1889719' date='Jun 13 2009, 12:21 PM']Being able to regurgitate ignorant cliches and link internet sites does not constitute understanding a religion.[/quote]

It isn't my interest to understand religion, but rather to understand God as He has revealed Himself through all of the prophets and apostles of his 1600 year record of His Holy Word that God's people have followed for 3500 years.
The things of foolishness to the natural man.

Edited June 16, 2009 by PeteWaldo

[Hassan]

[quote name='PeteWaldo' post='1893558' date='Jun 16 2009, 06:24 PM']It's Islam that has it both ways. That he wasn't effected by the poison yet in other records that he complained of it until his untimely death of fever - how many years later?

But you seem to want to lodge quite a spirited defense of a 7th century, illiterate, pillaging, plundering, murdering, child doing, stepson's wife taking, sex slave capturing, slave pimping, concubine fornicating, bloody imperialistic coward and thief.[/quote]



It's more like a rather intense dislike of stupid vitriol.

When you learn how to have a big boy conversation just let me know.

[PeteWaldo]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1893592' date='Jun 16 2009, 05:40 PM']It's more like a rather intense dislike of stupid vitriol.[/quote]

Certainly there's nobody more deserving of contempt, from a Christian perspective, than Mohammed. Leading his poor minions in the spirit of antichrist for 1400 years, including another 1.5 billion - 1/4 of mankind - today. I characterized one of the most vile men in human history.

Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.'"

His followers - Hitler and the Mufti: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sk3fKY9PhY&feature=channel_page"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sk3fKY9PhY...re=channel_page[/url]

I wouldn't offer Hitler any respect either, though his murders and genocide of Jews didn't also include the sexual madness that Mohammed indicated, even through a special "revelation" from his "Allah" that allowed him all the wives he wanted, but only for him.
The characterizations of Mohammed above are bequeathed to us by the Quran and hadith.
Take Mohammed's "Allah" on slave pimping for example:

Quran Surah 24:33...Force not your slave-girls to whoredom that ye may seek enjoyment of the life of the world, IF they would preserve their chastity. and if one force them, then (unto them), after their compulsion, lo! Allah will be forgiving, Merciful.

So IF they don’t want to preserve their chastity then pimp ‘em out and make some cash!
And even IF you force them into prostitution Allah will forgive anyway!
What a convenient god!

[quote name='Hassan' post='1893592' date='Jun 16 2009, 05:40 PM']When you learn how to have a big boy conversation just let me know.[/quote]

Let me know when you repent and maybe we can.

Edited June 17, 2009 by PeteWaldo

[Winchester]

[quote name='PeteWaldo' post='1894169' date='Jun 17 2009, 06:07 AM']Let me know when you repent and maybe we can.[/quote]
Meow.