Islam 101 - A One Minute Complete Course On Islam

[musturde]

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' post='1888355' date='Jun 11 2009, 03:27 AM']Hi Mustarde,

Just a minor correction: Muslims believe in the virgin birth of Jesus, but not in Mary's Immaculate Conception.[/quote]

Oops. You're right. I thought I had already corrected that.
Thanks.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1888119' date='Jun 10 2009, 09:49 PM']I'm not sure what your source is regarding the claim that "Islam" teaches that a prophet can neve be killed or that Christian leaders deliberately corrupted the texts. The Qur'an itself mentiones prophets being killed as I recall and there are many different oppinions regarding the former religious texts and thier integrity how they were corrupted, what is left et cetera. Islam has no central teaching authority. Outside of a few major parts there will almost always be some precedent for a different tradition.[/quote]
I heard it in a speech, which you will likely predictably dismiss, yet you have provided no Muslim sources stating belief in Jesus Christ's crucifixion and resurrection.

(And, as Muslims deny Jesus' divinity, regarding Him as a mere prophet, belief in the Resurrection, as recounted in the Gospels, would seem to me highly unlikely.)





[quote]I guess that depends on what you mean by compatible.[/quote]
For starters, Christians believe Jesus Christ is God and Savior, while Muslims do not.
Muslims believe Christians to be damnable infidels for not heeding the words of the Prophet Mohammed.

Obviously, these religions are in opposition to each other, and this fact is attested by history.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1888594' date='Jun 11 2009, 05:39 PM']I heard it in a speech, which you will likely predictably dismiss, yet you have provided no Muslim sources stating belief in Jesus Christ's crucifixion and resurrection.[/quote]

I'll dismise it because the individual did not know what they were talking about.

Surah Al-Baqarah (2:61)


[i]And remember ye said: "O Moses! we cannot endure one kind of food (always); so beseech thy Lord for us to produce for us of what the earth groweth, -its pot-herbs, and cucumbers, Its garlic, lentils, and onions." He said: "Will ye exchange the better for the worse? Go ye down to any town, and ye shall find what ye want!" They were covered with humiliation and misery; they drew on themselves the wrath of Allah. [b]This because they went on rejecting the Signs of Allah and slaying His Messengers without just cause.[/b] This because they rebelled and went on transgressing.[/i]

[quote](And, as Muslims deny Jesus' divinity, regarding Him as a mere prophet, belief in the Resurrection, as recounted in the Gospels, would seem to me highly unlikely.)[/quote]

I can go ahead and tell you that no Muslim sect I have ever heard of affirms the resurrection of Christ.






[quote]For starters, Christians believe Jesus Christ is God and Savior, while Muslims do not.
Muslims believe Christians to be damnable infidels for not heeding the words of the Prophet Mohammed.

Obviously, these religions are in opposition to each other, and this fact is attested by history.[/quote]


Those are examples, I'm asking what you mean by the actual claim.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1888857' date='Jun 11 2009, 10:42 PM']Those are examples, I'm asking what you mean by the actual claim.[/quote]
I believe that Socrates is asserting, as any true Christian must, that Islam is a false religion and that there is no salvation in it. In fact, those who follow faithfully the false teachings of Mohammad are less likely to achieve salvation than a pagan who -- through no fault of his own -- has never heard of Christ.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Apotheoun

[Guest Jon]

[quote name='musturde' post='1881649' date='Jun 2 2009, 10:06 PM'][url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/ZKORAN.HTM"]http://www.ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/ZKORAN.HTM[/url]
Btw, this is a more levelheaded explanation about Islam from a priest. I trust people on this forum will find this source somewhat reliable.[/quote]

[color="#000080"]Thank you for the link.

Jon[/color]

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1888897' date='Jun 12 2009, 01:23 AM']I believe that Socrates is asserting, as any true Christian must, that Islam is a false religion and that there is no salvation in it. In fact, those who follow faithfully the false teachings of Mohammad are less likely to achieve salvation than a pagan who -- through no fault of his own -- has never heard of Christ.[/quote]

That would make sense

[Guest Jon]

This is a link that farther down as you scroll has interesting ideas about Islam and how it relates to "666 and the Beast". Take it for what it's worth.

[url="http://www.schneblin.com/studies/pdfs/mark_of_the_beast.pdf"]http://www.schneblin.com/studies/pdfs/mark_of_the_beast.pdf[/url]

[Winchester]

Muslims don't seem to think Christianity to be 'compatible' with Islam.

[musturde]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1888897' date='Jun 12 2009, 02:23 AM']I believe that Socrates is asserting, as any true Christian must, that Islam is a false religion and that there is no salvation in it. In fact, those who follow faithfully the false teachings of Mohammad are less likely to achieve salvation than a pagan who -- through no fault of his own -- has never heard of Christ.[/quote]

If a Muslim is taught Christ's teachings in the context of Islam, how is it his fault that he is not a Christian?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='musturde' post='1889122' date='Jun 12 2009, 12:18 PM']If a Muslim is taught Christ's teachings in the context of Islam, how is it his fault that he is not a Christian?[/quote]
Muslims do not teach Christ's doctrine. Islam is at best the folly of Mohammad's imagination, and at worst it is a demonic deception intended to lead people away from faith in the Triune God.

Theological indifferentism is a heresy long ago condemned by the Church Fathers.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Apotheoun

[Hassan]

[quote name='Jon' post='1889010' date='Jun 12 2009, 09:33 AM']This is a link that farther down as you scroll has interesting ideas about Islam and how it relates to "666 and the Beast". Take it for what it's worth.

[url="http://www.schneblin.com/studies/pdfs/mark_of_the_beast.pdf"]http://www.schneblin.com/studies/pdfs/mark_of_the_beast.pdf[/url][/quote]


Good luck with that.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1889125' date='Jun 12 2009, 01:19 PM']Muslims do not teach Christ's doctrine. Islam is at best the folly of Mohammad's imagination, and at worst it is a demonic deception intended to lead people away from faith in the Triune God.[/quote]


I don't see what that has to do with his question. He did not seem to be asserting that the Islamic view of Jesus was in line with Church doctrine, but questioning your logic regarding comparison between a Muslim and a pagan regarding invincible ignorance.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1889312' date='Jun 12 2009, 05:57 PM']I don't see what that has to do with his question. He did not seem to be asserting that the Islamic view of Jesus was in line with Church doctrine, but questioning your logic regarding comparison between a Muslim and a pagan regarding invincible ignorance.[/quote]
To be a Muslim involves an explicit denial of the Trinity; therefore, a Muslim cannot be teaching the doctrine of Christ.

A pagan has no understanding of Christ, while a Muslim has a heretical notion of Christ, and therefore is encumbered, like an Arian or a Nestorian, by a belief in a false Christ. The pagan is not hindered in this way.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Apotheoun

[Apotheoun]

As far as Musturde's original post is concerned:

[quote name='musturde' post='1889122' date='Jun 12 2009, 12:18 PM']If a Muslim is taught Christ's teachings in the context of Islam, how is it his fault that he is not a Christian?[/quote]
The first portion of this comment asserts a logical impossibility, because Islam teaches that God is not a Trinity of persons, and that Christ is not the eternal and uncreated Logos made man. Thus, a Muslim is hindered in his quest for salvation, because he has been deceived into believing in a false Christ, and overcoming this false belief will no doubt be more difficult for him than it is for a pagan, who has no knowledge of Christ, to come to a true and living faith in Jesus Christ.

Islam is a false religion, and that fact must first be grasped before a Muslim can come to a true and living faith in God.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Apotheoun

[Hassan]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1889112' date='Jun 12 2009, 12:32 PM']Muslims don't seem to think Christianity to be 'compatible' with Islam.[/quote]


That depends on the Muslim. The Qur'an paints a reasonably favorable picture of Christians. Not that it is static. Various Muslim thinkers have approached Christianity from different thinkers. Al Ghazali, the closest thing in Sunni Orthodoxy to approach an Aquinas figure, had a more or less favorable view of Christianity. To the extent that there was a time when he was, incorrectly, considered a Crypto Christian in some Western Orientalist circles in the 19thish century as I recall. Seyyed Hossein Nasr, a major figure in contemporary Shia Islam has advocated that jurists can not consider contemporary Christians Kufir because the Trinitarian "Blasphemy" is not that of the Trinitarian formulation in the council of Trent and most main stream Christian sects, but a description of some local Christian splinter group that existed at the time. Others have had much more negative views. In contemporary times anti Christian rhetoric seems to generally be tied to anti colonialist rhetoric. While Colonialism may have spread Christianity a good deal in many former colonized countries, not Just Islamic ones, Christianity has in the popular imagination been intricately tied to the Colonialist adventures of the former great European powers. This is not a wholly irrational conflation, though not always fair.