Is It Time To Excommunicate?

[Niccolò]

Yes.

[b][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-5B54wXgI4&feature=related"]Excommunicate.[/url][/b]

Edited June 3, 2009 by Niccolò

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='musturde' post='1881251' date='Jun 2 2009, 02:57 PM']No. Let the politician do whatever. If the Catholic Church begins excommunicating people, it'll be prone to become more political. Has the Catholic Church even excommunicated politicians lately? I haven't heard of any.[/quote]

Those who distribute Communion to pro-abortion politicians are in violation of Canon Law, even at present:

"Those upon whom the penalty of excommunication or interdict has been imposed or declared, and [b]others who obstinately persist in manifest grave sin[/b], are not to be admitted to Holy Communion." (Codex Iuris Canonici 915, emphasis added)

Edited June 4, 2009 by Resurrexi

[musturde]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1882549' date='Jun 3 2009, 10:18 PM']Those who distribute Communion to pro-abortion politicians are in violation of Canon Law, even at present:

"Those upon whom the penalty of excommunication or interdict has been imposed or declared, and [b]others who obstinately persist in manifest grave sin[/b], are not to be admitted to Holy Communion." (Codex Iuris Canonici 915, emphasis added)[/quote]

Has the church excommunicated a politician recently though? If not, then I think the Church shouldn't. It's not leading Catholics astray either way. If the Church decides to excommunicate people, the majority of Americans will see it as the Church getting involved in American politics. Either way, let's give the politicians the same respect we would give someone we knew isn't of grace to receive. The bishops talking against his actions would be enough. Excommunication would not be to our better interest.

Edited June 4, 2009 by musturde

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='musturde' post='1882821' date='Jun 4 2009, 04:10 AM']Has the church excommunicated a politician recently though? If not, then I think the Church shouldn't. It's not leading Catholics astray either way. If the Church decides to excommunicate people, the majority of Americans will see it as the Church getting involved in American politics. Either way, let's give the politicians the same respect we would give someone we knew isn't of grace to receive. The bishops talking against his actions would be enough. Excommunication would not be to our better interest.[/quote]

Denying pro-abortion politicians Holy Communion has nothing to do with excommunication. It has to do with enforcing a discipline that has been practiced since Christianity's earliest days: denying Communion to public grave sinners.

Moreover, it is the right of the Roman Pontiff and the College of Bishops to intervene in politics whenever they choose to do so.

The Church has temporal authority, you know.

Edited June 4, 2009 by Resurrexi

[Marie-Therese]

The point still remains that by supporting abortion the politicians have excommunicated THEMSELVES by advocating the procurement of an abortion. A priest who knowingly administers the Eucharist to such a person is guilty of sacrilege.

And, if I am not mistaken, Kathleen Sebelius' bishop told her in not so many words that she better not show up for communion. The Vatican also commented on her case. So it is not that bishops aren't "excommunicating" these people, it's that many of them have not publicly stated that those people are no longer fit to receive the sacraments. I understand that they do not wish to make public spectacle out of the sacraments ( no one wants the showdown at the altar rail) but at the very least these bishops should have private discussions either with those politician parishioners or their parish priests to notify them of the situation so that it can be handled privately.

By not handling the situation, they are making many hapless priests party to sacrilege and letting the American people see the Church failing to act. Aren't we past winning popularity contests? Jesus told us that people would hate us. We have to stand firm or babies are going to continue to be slaughtered on the altar of political expediency.

Sorry for my rant. *hopping off soapbox*

[Maggyie]

I would let the relevant authorities determine if a priest who administers the Eucharist to such a person commits the mortal sin of sacrilege. The Pope himself has publically administered Holy Communion to infamous pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage politicians so I'm going to bet he has a different take.

And unfortunately issuing excommunications is not going to help stop political support for the status quo on abortion. The people who would be targeted are obviously not too docile to the teaching of the Church and it would be like water off the back of a duck to them. Or if they did take it seriously they would probably be embittered and go off to a Protestant denomination (which is NOT what any serious pastor of souls wants). I can say with a great deal of confidence that not one of them would suddenly change their principles to more align with the Church.


[quote name='Marie-Therese' post='1882845' date='Jun 4 2009, 09:24 AM']The point still remains that by supporting abortion the politicians have excommunicated THEMSELVES by advocating the procurement of an abortion. A priest who knowingly administers the Eucharist to such a person is guilty of sacrilege.

And, if I am not mistaken, Kathleen Sebelius' bishop told her in not so many words that she better not show up for communion. The Vatican also commented on her case. So it is not that bishops aren't "excommunicating" these people, it's that many of them have not publicly stated that those people are no longer fit to receive the sacraments. I understand that they do not wish to make public spectacle out of the sacraments ( no one wants the showdown at the altar rail) but at the very least these bishops should have private discussions either with those politician parishioners or their parish priests to notify them of the situation so that it can be handled privately.

By not handling the situation, they are making many hapless priests party to sacrilege and letting the American people see the Church failing to act. Aren't we past winning popularity contests? Jesus told us that people would hate us. We have to stand firm or babies are going to continue to be slaughtered on the altar of political expediency.

Sorry for my rant. *hopping off soapbox*[/quote]

Edited June 8, 2009 by Maggie

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1886512' date='Jun 8 2009, 02:57 PM']I would let the relevant authorities determine if a priest who administers the Eucharist to such a person commits the mortal sin of sacrilege. The Pope himself has publically administered Holy Communion to infamous pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage politicians so I'm going to bet he has a different take.[/quote]

I am guessing that the Holy Father either was not aware who those persons were or that he was not aware of their positions.

[Maggyie]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1890292' date='Jun 14 2009, 11:49 AM']I am guessing that the Holy Father either was not aware who those persons were or that he was not aware of their positions.[/quote]

No, the one I am thinking of is the Mayor of Rome, a political celebrity who is notorious for pro-choice, pro-gay marriage positions. There is no way the Pope didn't know who he was and what he stood for on those issues. This was at a public Mass and was photographed (I believe). There have been other examples but that is the one that comes to mind first.