saintwannabe 777 Posted June 1, 2009 Author Share Posted June 1, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1879657' date='May 31 2009, 09:30 PM']If you look at different magisterial decrees, the statements in favor of Infant's Limbo are stronger and more frequent than those against it.[/quote] But my big problem with it, is that I don't see how God would deny Himself to His children who through no fault of their own do not know Him. It's just like the concept of Natural Law and how people who have never heard of Jesus and His church can get to Heaven as long as they follow the natural law on their hearts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1879659' date='May 31 2009, 09:31 PM']BEFORE he gave his opinion, he stated: "Limbo was never a defined truth of faith." Seems more of a fact rather than an opinion.[/quote] If Cardinal Ratzinger had wanted to make an authoritative statement as prefect of the CDF, we would have written a document, signed it, and got the Pope to approve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamalove Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 I pray that they forgive us for not doing enough and for our silence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1879666' date='May 31 2009, 09:33 PM']If Cardinal Ratzinger had wanted to make an authoritative statement as prefect of the CDF, we would have written a document, signed it, and got the Pope to approve it.[/quote] Why is it to hard to believe that he was stating FACT? Does every Church leader who cites FACT need the "okay" from the Pope in order to speak it? [b] Although Catholics have long believed that children who die without being baptized are with original sin and thus excluded from heaven, the church has no formal doctrine on the matter. [/b] Source: [url="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,267420,00.html"]http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,267420,00.html[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwannabe 777 Posted June 1, 2009 Author Share Posted June 1, 2009 [quote name='mamalove' post='1879667' date='May 31 2009, 09:33 PM']I pray that they forgive us for not doing enough and for our silence.[/quote] I believe they have and our praying for us to stand up and to liberate their little brothers and sisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Here is another article: [url="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article598134.ece"]http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...ticle598134.ece[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 (edited) [quote name='saintwannabe 777' post='1879663' date='May 31 2009, 09:32 PM']But my big problem with it, is that I don't see how God would deny Himself to His children who through no fault of their own do not know Him. It's just like the concept of Natural Law and how people who have never heard of Jesus and His church can get to Heaven as long as they follow the natural law on their hearts.[/quote] Infants' Limbo is a state of natural happiness. That doesn't sound too bad to me. Edited June 1, 2009 by Resurrexi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwannabe 777 Posted June 1, 2009 Author Share Posted June 1, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1879668' date='May 31 2009, 09:34 PM']Why is it to hard to believe that he was stating FACT? Does every Church leader who cites FACT need the "okay" from the Pope in order to speak it? [b] Although Catholics have long believed that children who die without being baptized are with original sin and thus excluded from heaven, the church has no formal doctrine on the matter. [/b] Source: [url="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,267420,00.html"]http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,267420,00.html[/url][/quote] Yeah, I agree with the article. I believe that God can save unbaptized babies in a way unbeknownst to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1879668' date='May 31 2009, 09:34 PM']Why is it to hard to believe that he was stating FACT? Does every Church leader who cites FACT need the "okay" from the Pope in order to speak it? [b] Although Catholics have long believed that children who die without being baptized are with original sin and thus excluded from heaven, the church has no formal doctrine on the matter. [/b] Source: [url="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,267420,00.html"]http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,267420,00.html[/url][/quote] Fox News is not an authority for Official Church teaching. Also the quote does not mean that it does not exist. It only states that there is no [u]formal[/u] doctrine on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwannabe 777 Posted June 1, 2009 Author Share Posted June 1, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1879671' date='May 31 2009, 09:36 PM']Infants' Limbo is a state of natural happiness. That doesn't sound too bad to me.[/quote] Yeah, but it doesn't seem like Jesus to deny Himself to little children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 The Church says that we CAN believe that unbaptized infants go to Heaven. If the Church says so, why would you NOT believe it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1879678' date='May 31 2009, 08:41 PM']The Church says that we CAN believe that unbaptized infants go to Heaven. If the Church says so, why would you NOT believe it?[/quote] Because She also says you can believe in Limbus infantium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 there is an idea of mystical baptism that needs to be developed. It is implied in several verses of Scripture such as these: Psalm {67:19} You have ascended on high; you have taken captivity captive. You have accepted gifts among men. For even those who do not believe dwell with the Lord God. [1 Corinthians 10] {10:1} For I do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and they all went across the sea. {10:2} And in Moses, they all were baptized, in the cloud and in the sea. {10:3} And they all ate of the same spiritual food. {10:4} And they all drank of the same spiritual drink. And so, they all were drinking of the spiritual rock seeking to obtain them; and that rock was Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 More clearly She says we can "hope" that unbaptized infants go to Heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 (edited) The council of Florence decreed: "Illorum autem animas, qui in actuali mortali peccato vel solo originali decedunt, mox in infernum descendere, poenis tamen disparibus puniendas" [url="http://catho.org/9.php?d=bx0#b1o"](Denzinger-Schonmetzer 1306)[/url] "Moreover, the souls of those who depart in actual mortal sin or in original sin only, descend immediately into hell but to undergo punishments of different kinds" [url="http://www.catecheticsonline.com/SourcesofDogma7.php"](Denzinger 693)[/url] Edited June 1, 2009 by Resurrexi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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