George Tiller Shot To Death At Wichita Church

[ironmonk]

[quote name='kujo' post='1880204' date='Jun 1 2009, 10:03 AM']Secondly, I really don't remember being told that it was my job to be a "minister of God's vengeance." Where does our Catholic faith require that of us? When did we become a people who act on behalf of GOD in this matter?[/quote]

The issue is not about dealing out God's vengeance, granted some use this point of view. The issue for many of us is defending the needy. When looking at the Catechism and Bible's teachings on both murder, just war, and abortion, it can easily be argued that to protect babies, it is justified to kill the person about to kill the child. The logical flow is there. If one abortion doctor kills only four babies a day in a work week, in a year he would have killed (with a blender) over 250 innocent babies. Easy to see how someone could be motivated to saving babies. According to the Catholic Church, the greatest proportional reason to base our votes on is the lives of the innocent unborn. Second is family, and third is social justice. The killing of an abortionist is the equivalent of a German killing an Auschwitz Nazi in WWII. Too bad more Germans didn't stand up and kill the Auschwitz Nazi's... maybe they would have saved more of the Jews before the end of the war.

[b]Proverbs 31:8[/b]
Open your mouth in behalf of the dumb, and for the rights of the destitute;
[b]9[/b]Open your mouth, decree what is just, [b]defend the needy [/b]and the poor!

We are to defend the needy.

[b]Who else is more needy than an innocent baby?[/b]

[b]What we need to do:[/b]
[list=1]
[*]We need to convince people that life is the first and foremost issue, as taught by the Church.
[*]We need to oust every anti-life political leader and judge.
[*]We need to elect only pro-life people.
[*]Providing abortion should be made a capital crime.
[*]Having an abortion needs to be treated like any other murder case.
[/list]


I'm not saying I completely agree with the killing of the butcher, but I understand how someone would want to save babies.

God Bless and help that 51-year-old man from the Kansas City, Kansas.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[rizz_loves_jesus]

[quote name='ironmonk' post='1880039' date='Jun 1 2009, 12:52 AM'][b]The only difference between killing a baby up to nine months old and an unborn baby is location.[/b]


We must ask ourselves, [b]what would we do if it was legal to take a baby up to nine months old to a butcher and have the child ran through a meat grinder...[/b] that is what is happening with the unborn.


God Bless,
ironmonk[/quote]

The thing is, though, murder of a born child is already illegal, while abortion is legal. We need to work to make abortion illegal. In order to do that, we must win people over to the pro-life side. We can't do things like this, it's just a huge setback to the ultimate illegalization of abortion.

Edited June 1, 2009 by rizz_loves_jesus

[ironmonk]

The motive for Tiller's death is currently unknown. The police have a suspect, yet have not released any statements on why.

The media is spinning this to vilify anyone who respects life.

Man's laws are our attempt to bring about and keep justice.

[b]Is there a difference between the killing of Tiller and a Auschwitz Nazi by a German?[/b] They are in essence doing the same thing. The [b]Nazis were unjust aggressors [/b]just as [b]abortionist doctors are unjust aggressors on innocent babies[/b]. Both the [b]Nazi and the abortionist did/do things legally[/b]. Hitler was elected.


[u][b]Main point: We don't know if the Tiller's killer did it to protect innocent babies.[/b][/u]

God Bless,
ironmonk

Edited June 1, 2009 by ironmonk

[Hassan]

[quote name='ironmonk' post='1880427' date='Jun 1 2009, 02:57 PM']Is there a difference between the killing of Tiller and a Auschwitz Nazi by a German? They are in essence doing the same thing. The Nazis were unjust aggressors just as abortionist doctors are unjust aggressors on innocent babies. Both the Nazi and the abortionist did things legally. Hitler was elected.


God Bless,
ironmonk[/quote]


If you really believed that, and wern't a coward, you'd be actively fighting. Yet here you are just blowing hot air on the internet.

At least that's how I see it.

[VoTeckam]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1880429' date='Jun 1 2009, 04:02 PM']If you really believed that, and wern't a coward, you'd be actively fighting. Yet here you are just blowing hot air on the internet.

At least that's how I see it.[/quote]


I agree with Hassan. If the man who murdered Tillar was doing the right thing by ridding the world of an evil man by walking into a building and shooting him then shouldn't you be striving to do the same? Do you not want to do the will of God?

I [s]suppose[/s] hope that the reason you do not walk around killing abortionists is beacuse in your heart lives the Holy Spirit and that Spirit prevents you from taking a life. The holy spirit does not mislead. Tiller's murderer lacked such guidance.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='rizz_loves_jesus' post='1880404' date='Jun 1 2009, 03:03 PM']The thing is, though, murder of a born child is already illegal, while abortion is legal. We need to work to make abortion illegal. In order to do that, we must win people over to the pro-life side. We can't do things like this, it's just a huge setback to the ultimate illegalization of abortion.[/quote]
Legal doesn't equal moral by any stretch of the imagination. It was quite legal to kill jews and catholics and homosexuals in Germany as well.

[rizz_loves_jesus]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1880433' date='Jun 1 2009, 03:13 PM']Legal doesn't equal moral by any stretch of the imagination. It was quite legal to kill jews and catholics and homosexuals in Germany as well.[/quote]

I'm not saying legal equals moral, I'm saying that our main priority for abortion should be to ultimately outlaw it. We can't do that if we keep turning America away from the pro-life message by doing things like this. I apologize if I was unclear on that.

Edited June 1, 2009 by rizz_loves_jesus

[ironmonk]

Hassan/Voteckam,

To understand someone, one should read all of the posts on a topic, at least on this thread. Open your eyes and maybe you'll see things. Take the chip off your shoulders and go back up above and read what I wrote, your rebuttal and the facts have already been posted.


------------------------

[quote]Main point: We don't know if the Tiller's killer did it to protect innocent babies.[/quote]
I just read that Tillers killing was because Tiller killed babies.

Let's not let people call it a political killing, because it's not. Political stuff is economics, speed on the road, taxes, etc... The killing was because Tiller killed innocent babies... how is it that the murder of an innocent child be a "political" matter? If we can call the killing of a killer a political motived murder, then all murders are politically motivated.

[dominicansoul]

to be honest, i don't place the guy who pulled the trigger in the same category of murder that I place tiller...perhaps, he felt he was protecting future unborn children, or perhaps he was personally effected by an abortion tiller performed? we don't know all the details. maybe he was doing it to defend someone he loves from having one? i don't know what to think of this kind of situation...it's happened before, and I'm sure it will happen again...

violence begets violence...

..but I can't honestly judge the killer and call him a murderer in the same right as this abortionist...

tiller slaughtered thousands in the most vile and violent of ways...and he would've continued to slaughter thousands more if he wasn't stopped...

this man only shot and killed one man and will possibly get the death penalty. tiller killed thousands...and received a much humane death penalty than he gave to those little babies...

[ironmonk]

Killing Tiller was illegal.

Morally wrong... I'm unsure... as the argument can be made from a just war and saving an innocent child standpoint that is pretty strong.

The fact is that if enough people did kill abortionist doctors, people would stop doing abortions.

I've already posted the things we need to do to stop abortion legally, so people, please don't try twisting what I am posting here... look at the other posts before jumping to conclusions.

For those that think Tiller's killer is as bad as Hitler, please explain to me how an abortionist doctor is different from an Auschwitz Nazi, given the scientific fact that life begins at conception and abortionists kill babies with a hand blender, saltwater, or by crushing their skull.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[VoTeckam]

[quote name='ironmonk' post='1880444' date='Jun 1 2009, 04:22 PM']Hassan/Voteckam,

To understand someone, one should read all of the posts on a topic, at least on this thread. Open your eyes and maybe you'll see things. Take the chip off your shoulders and go back up above and read what I wrote, your rebuttal and the facts have already been posted.[/quote]

Iron Monk,

I didn't mean to seem as though I was judging you. I understand the emotions involved in this situation. I admire your passion for the unborn. That is something that we share. That passion and your presence at Phatmass lead me to believe that you are someone with an informed conscience. So I trust your judgement. Would you have walked into the church and shot this man in the head? If the answer is no then the killer did the wrong thing.

[Marie-Therese]

My sorrow is great, because our great country has degenerated into this Godless morass of social relativism and hedonistic free-for-all behavior.

I pray for the souls of all involved...may God have mercy on Mr. Tiller ( I cannot call him doctor, since a doctor is an upholder of the Hippocratic oath which states "first do no harm"), and may God have mercy on his killer, I pray that they both were able to see the error of their ways and repent. I also pray for all those affected by the scourge of the genocide known as abortion.

May God have mercy on us all.

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
moving to debate table.

[ironmonk]

VoTeckam,
Thank you for clarifying. I wasn't considering the location of Tillers murder, only the killing itself. Most definitely wrong to have killed Tiller in the church.


------------------


Has anyone seen anything more about Scott Roeder (the killer) (i.e. motive)? Imagine if this guy was preventing the death of his own child. Wonder what the media spin would be.

God Bless,
ironmonk

[ironmonk]

Check this article out...

[url="http://www.lifenews.com/state4189.html"]http://www.lifenews.com/state4189.html[/url]

[quote]According to the Kansas City Star, the FBI suspected Roeder of having ties with the Montana Freemen, a militia group, which had had standoffs with authorities.

...

Roeder has spent time in prison, including a 16-month stint after violating the terms of his parole related to the license plate incident.

Roeder's [b]only ties to pro-life groups appear to be messages he left on the public forum at the Operation Rescue[/b] web site concerning Tiller.

...

Roeder has applauded those very few people who support killing abortion practitioners and ran around in circles with the handful of people who believe in vigilante actions, but appears to have never been a member of any legitimate pro-life group that represents the majority of pro-life Americans.[/quote]