In The Arms of The Lord Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 May the Lord have mercy on Mr. Tiller's soul, and on the one who took his life. Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1879266' date='May 31 2009, 12:24 PM']We can judge whether the sin was of grave matter.[/quote] Yes, we can judge the objective nature of an action, but we cannot judge the actions imputability to an individual person. God alone judges the secrets of the heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 [quote name='Lil Red' post='1879351' date='May 31 2009, 08:59 PM']+J.M.J.+ huh?[/quote] [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1879354' date='May 31 2009, 09:01 PM']Seconded.[/quote] Yeah, count me as confused on that one, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 This whole thing is a little weird for me since he's from my city... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1879348' date='May 31 2009, 01:58 PM']Absolutely. I'm certainly not going to make judgements about culpability, etc. All I know is that next time there's a pro life debate going on, this case is going to be brought up and take the whole discussion on a worthless tangent.[/quote] Not really . . . just state up front that the person who killed Dr. Tiller committed a reprehensible act, in much the same way that Dr. Tiller himself had done on numerous occasion by murdering the innocent through the crime of abortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1879375' date='May 31 2009, 03:24 PM']Not really . . . just state up front that the person who killed Dr. Tiller committed a reprehensible act, in much the same way that Dr. Tiller himself had done on numerous occasion by murdering the innocent through the crime of abortion.[/quote] The people I always seem to have to debate with aren't generally bright enough to leave it alone after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1879378' date='May 31 2009, 02:25 PM']The people I always seem to have to debate with aren't generally bright enough to leave it alone after that. [/quote] I would simply continue to bring up Dr. Tiller's own murderous actions. I would also state several times my hope that Dr. Tiller repented before his own death, and that God shows him more mercy than he showed by his own actions in murdering innocent children through the crime of abortion. Edited May 31, 2009 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 This title is driving me nuts. It's not a church. It's an ecclesial community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1879396' date='May 31 2009, 03:32 PM']This title is driving me nuts. It's not a church. It's an ecclesial community.[/quote] Deep breaths my friend. Offer your sufferings to God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1879396' date='May 31 2009, 02:32 PM']This title is driving me nuts. It's not a church. It's an ecclesial community.[/quote] +J.M.J.+ give it a rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1879396' date='May 31 2009, 02:32 PM']This title is driving me nuts. It's not a church. It's an ecclesial community.[/quote] You are correct, and I would even question the use of that terminology if the group in question supports abortion. A Christian cannot support abortion as a means or an end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rizz_loves_jesus Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 [quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1879365' date='May 31 2009, 04:16 PM']Yeah, count me as confused on that one, too.[/quote] Me too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 It is an ELCA group which explains why he is an usher there. I was raised ELCA. While abortion was frowned upon in a general sense as typically unnecessary most individual parishes accept it as a "private choice for each woman and family." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeCatholic Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 [quote name='Brother Adam' post='1879507' date='May 31 2009, 05:41 PM']It is an ELCA group which explains why he is an usher there. I was raised ELCA. While abortion was frowned upon in a general sense as typically unnecessary most individual parishes accept it as a "private choice for each woman and family."[/quote] That's at least better than what I grew up with. I remember listening to my female pastor describe the events leading up to her abortion of her 3rd child who was unplanned. I was probably only 5 at the time and I still remember a lot of it in detail. disgusting. Praying for Tiller and his family. God only knows the true state of his soul, but what an amazing saint would he make!? Imagine all the grace God is sending down on everyone involved- i just hope they accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Vinny Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 [quote name='Winchester' post='1879280' date='May 31 2009, 02:37 PM']Could have been defense of another. Could have been motivated by any number of things, including derangement that would remove culpability or make the action moral. There's a good chance the doctor wasn't morally culpable for killing children. Of course, we don't really consider them children.[/quote] In the words of Tonto, "Why do you say [i]we,[/i] white man?" Who is this "we" you keep referring to as not considering the unborn as children? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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