Nihil Obstat Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Q. Do you have a Facebook account? If the answer is yes, then proceed. Q. Do you believe in objective evil? If yes, then proceed. Q. Would you like to use Facebook to help me defend the concept of objective evil? I wrote a note with an excerpt from Jesus of Nazareth. Now I have two not particularly clever people debating me. One is a sola scriptura anti Catholic, the other is a hippie style atheist. They're both arguing against the presence of objective evil...... and the one is using the old "the pope is a nazi OMGZORZ" argument. If anyone wants to help me completely shut down their tired, overused, and easily refuted arguments, then send me a PM and I'll hook you up to my FB profile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingStone Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 I want in. And the answer is yes, yes, and yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 [b]Atheist at 11:54pm May 25[/b] Not everyone had the same definition of objectively evil actions. But I still can't take a Pope who swore allegiance to the Führer seriously. [b] Me at 7:31am May 26[/b] That's just the point. Not everying *thinks* they have the same definition of evil, but objectively evil is always objectively evil, whether or not they know it. He deserted the German army. He would have been killed if they caught him. (Also, even though he was forced into the Hitler Youth League, he refused to attend meetings.) [b]Sola Scriptura anti Catholic at 4:12pm May 26[/b] So, not everyone has the same definition of evil but nonetheless evil is evil. It sounds like you're trying to define evi (abortion, torture, euthanasia). The problem is that that is what evil is to you. You don't get to dictate what is and what isn't evil. [b]Atheist at 11:28pm May 26[/b] Apparently he was in the army for a bit, but he didn't do anything important. Also, I agree with Sola Scriptura anti Catholic. [b]Me at 11:33pm May 26[/b] I'm not defining evil; that's been done by many many people far more qualified than myself. I'm recognizing fundemental truths. In terms of the army,what I believe happened is that he was sent to an anti-aircraft division in which he entirely neglected his orders, refused to train, then deserted. He and his brother Georg both deserted so that they could go *back* to the seminary which they were already enrolled in. When the Allies invaded, they were both put in a POW camp until it was discovered that they had indeed *deserted*, risking execution. Seriously, calling the Pope a nazi is like saying that Duceppe is FLQ because he happens to be from Quebec and has something to do with Quebec seperatism. It's a ridiculous, unfounded, and intellectually dishonest argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christie_M Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 I was watching that. wasn't sure how to respond though.... but now that i know it's open...hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 [quote name='LivingStone' post='1876389' date='May 27 2009, 12:38 AM']I want in. And the answer is yes, yes, and yes. [/quote] PM me, we'll get this party started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 [quote name='Christie_M' post='1876392' date='May 27 2009, 12:41 AM']I was watching that. wasn't sure how to respond though.... but now that i know it's open...hehe[/quote] You were quite welcome earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingStone Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 ok give me a sec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingStone Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 sent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christie_M Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1876396' date='May 26 2009, 11:43 PM']You were quite welcome earlier. [/quote] lets see if i don't mess up now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 [quote name='Christie_M' post='1876403' date='May 27 2009, 12:48 AM']lets see if i don't mess up now [/quote] Then I deny knowing you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christie_M Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 fair enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirklawd Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 aside from defending the pope, which I think you are doing wonderfully, the real argument is the existence of an objective evil. I think its up to them to prove that evil isn't objective. I would also remind them that if evil is relative, so is good. If no one can really, 100% say that something is evil all the time, than no one can do the same thing for good. How is good justified? How do they know that what is good is really good? I'm pretty sure the athiest will respond with "happiness" and "popular vote" in that order. Ask them why they think slavery is wrong, thats always fun to watch. I'm surprised that someone who believes sola scriptura is arguing against the idea of objective evil - or are they just taking the opportunity to bash the church? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvilleFan Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1876387' date='May 27 2009, 02:37 AM']I wrote a note with an excerpt from Jesus of Nazareth. Now I have two not particularly clever people debating me. One is a sola scriptura anti Catholic, the other is a hippie style atheist. They're both arguing against the presence of objective evil...... and the one is using the old "the pope is a nazi OMGZORZ" argument. If anyone wants to help me completely shut down their tired, overused, and easily refuted arguments, then send me a PM and I'll hook you up to my FB profile. [/quote] I'd just leave 'em be. People like that can't stand being ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theologian in Training Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1876391' date='May 27 2009, 02:41 AM'][b]Atheist at 11:54pm May 25[/b] Not everyone had the same definition of objectively evil actions. But I still can't take a Pope who swore allegiance to the Führer seriously. [b] Me at 7:31am May 26[/b] That's just the point. Not everying *thinks* they have the same definition of evil, but objectively evil is always objectively evil, whether or not they know it. He deserted the German army. He would have been killed if they caught him. (Also, even though he was forced into the Hitler Youth League, he refused to attend meetings.) [b]Sola Scriptura anti Catholic at 4:12pm May 26[/b] So, not everyone has the same definition of evil but nonetheless evil is evil. It sounds like you're trying to define evi (abortion, torture, euthanasia). The problem is that that is what evil is to you. You don't get to dictate what is and what isn't evil. [b]Atheist at 11:28pm May 26[/b] Apparently he was in the army for a bit, but he didn't do anything important. Also, I agree with Sola Scriptura anti Catholic. [b]Me at 11:33pm May 26[/b] I'm not defining evil; that's been done by many many people far more qualified than myself. I'm recognizing fundemental truths. In terms of the army,what I believe happened is that he was sent to an anti-aircraft division in which he entirely neglected his orders, refused to train, then deserted. He and his brother Georg both deserted so that they could go *back* to the seminary which they were already enrolled in. When the Allies invaded, they were both put in a POW camp until it was discovered that they had indeed *deserted*, risking execution. Seriously, calling the Pope a nazi is like saying that Duceppe is FLQ because he happens to be from Quebec and has something to do with Quebec seperatism. It's a ridiculous, unfounded, and intellectually dishonest argument.[/quote] No offense, but are you seriously having this conversation? There is nothing even remotely substantial to build upon, and their arguments are not even arguments. In fact, as "mean" as this might sound, they don't even know how to argue or engage in a logical conversation. Edited May 27, 2009 by Theologian in Training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 [quote name='Sirklawd' post='1876572' date='May 27 2009, 09:59 AM']I'm surprised that someone who believes sola scriptura is arguing against the idea of objective evil - or are they just taking the opportunity to bash the church?[/quote] Almost certainly the latter. Although I almost might have been wrong in calling her a sola scriptura anti Catholic. She may just be a liberal Christian anti Catholic. I've never been sure with that one. [quote name='Theologian in Training' post='1876690' date='May 27 2009, 03:37 PM']No offense, but are you seriously having this conversation? There is nothing even remotely substantial to build upon, and their arguments are not even arguments. In fact, as "mean" as this might sound, they don't even know how to argue or engage in a logical conversation.[/quote] With the people I know, sometimes this is the best I have to work with. There's a hardcore atheist humanist that I was hoping would come and yell at me, but no such luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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