The Creed

[picchick]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1889513' date='Jun 13 2009, 01:44 AM']Do you honestly think that everyone who has been baptized or received into the Catholic Church holds orthodox views?[/quote]

No. Of course not. There will be individuals who do not hold orthodox views of course. I just don't understand what you are getting at....


EDIT: reworded my phraseology. Yes...new word I know.

Edited June 13, 2009 by picchick

[Resurrexi]

I'm opposed to the extreme de-Latinization which rejects the teachings of Florence, Trent, Vatican I, Vatican II, etc.

[Apotheoun]

[i]Below is the Melkite Catholic translation of the Niceno-Constantinpolitan Creed, which is used in the divine liturgy:[/i]

[size=3][indent]I believe in one God, Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and
earth and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only‐Begotten Son of God,
begotten of the Father before all ages. Light of Light, true
God of true God, begotten, not made, of one essence with
the Father, by whom all things were made. Who, for us men
and for our salvation, came down from Heaven, and was
incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and became
man. He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered, and
was buried. He rose again on the third day in accordance with
the Scriptures, ascended into Heaven, and is enthroned at the
right hand of the Father. He will come again with glory to
judge the living and the dead and of His Kingdom there shall
be no end.

And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, who proceeds
from the Father, who together with the Father and the Son is
worshipped and glorified, who spoke through the prophets. And
in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. I profess one
baptism for the remission of sins. I look forward to the
resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen.[/indent][/size]

Edited June 17, 2009 by Apotheoun

[Resurrexi]

Below the translation of the Niceno-Constantinpolitan Creed that the Holy Roman Church uses:

Credo in unum Deum Patrem omnipoténtem, factórem coeli et terræ, visibílium ómnium et invisibílium. Et in unum Dóminum Iesum Christum, Fílium Dei unigénitum. Et ex Patre natum ante ómnia sǽcula. Deum de Deo, lumen de lúmine, Deum verum de Deo vero. Génitum, non factum, consubstantiálem Patri: per quem ómnia facta sunt. Qui propter nos hómines, et propter nostram salútem descéndit de cœlis. Et incarnátus est de Spíritu Sancto ex María Virgine: et homo factus est. Crucifíxus etiam pro nobis; sub Póntio Pilato passus, et sepúltus est. Et resurréxit tértia die, secúndum Scripturas. Et ascéndit in coelum: sedet ad déxteram Patris. Et íterum ventúrus est cum glória iudicáre vivos et mórtuos: cuius regni non erit finis. Et in Spíritum Sanctum, Dóminum et vivificántem: qui ex Patre Filióque procédit. Qui cum Patre, et Filio simul adorátur et conglorificátur: qui locútus est per Prophétas. Et unam, sanctam, catholicam et Apostólicam Ecclésiam. Confíteor unum baptísma in remissiónem peccatórum. Et exspécto resurrectiónem mortuórum. Et vitam ventúri sǽculi. Amen.

[Apotheoun]

[i]Below is the original and universally normative Greek text of the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed, as it was set forth in the decree of the God-inspired Fathers at the Second Ecumenical Council:[/i]


[indent][size=3]Πιστεύομεν εἰς ἕνα Θεόν, Πατέρα, Παντοκράτορα, ποιητὴν οὐρανοῦ καὶ γῆς, ὁρατῶν τε πάντων καὶ ἀοράτων.

Καὶ εἰς ἕνα Κύριον Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν, τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦ Θεοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ, τὸν ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς γεννηθέντα πρὸ πάντων τῶν αἰώνων· φῶς ἐκ φωτός, Θεὸν ἀληθινὸν ἐκ Θεοῦ ἀληθινοῦ, γεννηθέντα οὐ ποιηθέντα, ὁμοούσιον τῷ Πατρί, δι οὗ τὰ πάντα ἐγένετο.

Τὸν δι ἡμᾶς τοὺς ἀνθρώπους καὶ διὰ τὴν ἡμετέραν σωτηρίαν κατελθόντα ἐκ τῶν οὐρανῶν καὶ σαρκωθέντα ἐκ Πνεύματος Ἁγίου καὶ Μαρίας τῆς Παρθένου καὶ ἐνανθρωπήσαντα.

Σταυρωθέντα τε ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν ἐπὶ Ποντίου Πιλάτου, καὶ παθόντα καὶ ταφέντα.

Καὶ ἀναστάντα τῇ τρίτῃ ἡμέρα κατὰ τὰς Γραφάς.

Καὶ ἀνελθόντα εἰς τοὺς οὐρανοὺς καὶ καθεζόμενον ἐκ δεξιῶν τοῦ Πατρός.

Καὶ πάλιν ἐρχόμενον μετὰ δόξης κρῖναι ζῶντας καὶ νεκρούς, οὗ τῆς βασιλείας οὐκ ἔσται τέλος.

Καὶ εἰς τὸ Πνεῦμα τὸ Ἅγιον, τὸ κύριον, τὸ ζωοποιόν, τὸ ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς ἐκπορευόμενον, τὸ σὺν Πατρὶ καὶ Υἱῷ συμπροσκυνούμενον καὶ συνδοξαζόμενον, τὸ λαλῆσαν διὰ τῶν προφητῶν.

Εἰς μίαν, Ἁγίαν, Καθολικὴν καὶ Ἀποστολικὴν Ἐκκλησίαν.

Ὁμολογῶ ἓν βάπτισμα εἰς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν.

Προσδοκῶ ἀνάστασιν νεκρῶν.

Καὶ ζωὴν τοῦ μέλλοντος αἰῶνος.

Ἀμήν. [/size][/indent]

[Resurrexi]

+AMDG+

The translation of the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed which the Holy Roman Church uses was professed by the Fathers of the Ecumenical Council of Trent; therefore, it has the same infallibility as the Greek original.

Edited June 17, 2009 by Resurrexi

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1894034' date='Jun 16 2009, 11:13 PM']+AMDG+

The translation of the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed which the Holy Roman Church uses was professed by the Fathers of the Ecumenical Council of Trent; therefore, it has the same infallibility as the Greek original.[/quote]
No, the Roman Church's liturgical creed is not normative for the whole Church, nor are the changes contained within it inspired.

Click the link below in order to download an mp3 sound file of Pope Benedict XVI reciting the normative and universally binding Greek language version of the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed with the Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I.

[url="http://wdtprs.com/blog/podpress_trac/web/3803/0/08_06_29_PETERPAUL_CREED.mp3"][b][u]Pope Benedict XVI and Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew reciting the Creed together in Greek[/u][/b][/url]

[Resurrexi]

+AMDG+

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1894038' date='Jun 17 2009, 01:22 AM']No, the Roman Church's liturgical creed is not normative for the whole Church, nor are the changes contained within it inspired.[/quote]

The translation of the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed which the Holy Roman Church uses, in addition to being chanted or read in her Liturgy, was also used at several Ecumenical Councils of the Universal Church. The use of this translation of the Creed at those Ecumenical Councils is what gives it the same authority as the Greek original.

N.B., I do not hold that either the Greek original or the authoritative Latin translation of the Creed is inspiried as the Holy Scriptures are.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1894044' date='Jun 16 2009, 11:29 PM']+AMDG+



The translation of the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed which the Holy Roman Church uses, in addition to being chanted or read in her Liturgy, was also used at several Ecumenical Councils of the Universal Church. The use of this translation of the Creed at those Ecumenical Councils is what gives it the same authority as the Greek original.

N.B., I do not hold that either the Greek original or the authoritative Latin translation of the Creed is inspiried as the Holy Scriptures are.[/quote]
Nope, the Latin Church's liturgical creed, which was altered from its original and universally binding and authoritative version as set forth at the Second Ecumenical Council, was used by several local synods of the Roman Church, and as a consequence it has no binding authority beyond the Roman Church.

N.B. - I follow the teaching of the ancient Church, which held that the Fathers -- when gathered in the Holy Spirit -- are God-inspired when they issue a decree that authoritatively reiterates the Orthodox faith, which was given once for all to the saints.

Edited June 17, 2009 by Apotheoun

[Resurrexi]

There have been twenty-one ecumenical councils of the Catholic Church, not merely seven.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1894115' date='Jun 17 2009, 12:31 AM']

There have been twenty-one ecumenical councils of the Catholic Church, not merely seven.[/quote]


There have been Seven Ecumenical Councils.

I must say that I am always overjoyed by the fact that both Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI have only recited the normative Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed when in the presence of Eastern Christians (both Catholic and Orthodox).

[Resurrexi]

+AMDG+

I doubt that Bishop Bartholomew would have felt comfortable reciting the Creed with the Supreme Pontiff who has authority over him had the great and wonderful addition of the words "kai ek tou Uiou" been included.

Edited June 17, 2009 by Resurrexi

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1894133' date='Jun 17 2009, 01:09 AM']+AMDG+

I doubt that Bishop Bartholomew would have felt comfortable reciting the Creed with the Supreme Pontiff who has authority over him had the great and wonderful addition of the words "kai tou Uiou" been included.[/quote]

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1894133' date='Jun 17 2009, 01:09 AM']+AMDG+

I doubt that Bishop Bartholomew would have felt comfortable reciting the Creed with the Supreme Pontiff who has authority over him had the great and wonderful addition of the words "kai tou Uiou" been included.[/quote]
That Greek phrase cannot be added to the creed because when taken in connection with the word "ekporeuomenon" they would be heretical.

[Resurrexi]

Edited June 17, 2009 by Resurrexi