This Roman Catholic Woman Got My Respect

[MithLuin]

Lots of people fall through the cracks - anyone [i]could[/i] be illiterate. I doubt anyone here knows if this particular child [i]is[/i] illiterate, though, so it does seem silly to bicker over that detail.

As a point of clarification, gardacil is not a form of birth control/contraceptive. It has no affect on fertility in any way. It is a vaccine against a viral STD that is the primary cause of cervical cancer in women. The state has an obligation to require vaccines across the board, because they are ineffective without the phenomena of herd immunity - if everyone is immunized, no one gets sick, and the disease is eliminated. If people without the vaccine live in a community, the disease can run through the community, possibly even affecting people who got the shot.

When a new vaccine is introduced, some parents are generally reluctant to give it to their kids. There's always a transitional period. But some vaccines are more controversial than others. The MMR for 18 mo. olds is thought by some to be linked to autism, and of course HPV is an STD, and some parents want to suggest that there are other ways of avoiding infection besides getting the vaccine (true enough, of course). But their reluctance to get vaccinated is not related to the Catholic stance on contraceptives, and has more to do with the Christian stance on fornication.

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='MithLuin' post='1875358' date='May 25 2009, 10:43 PM']Lots of people fall through the cracks - anyone [i]could[/i] be illiterate. I doubt anyone here knows if this particular child [i]is[/i] illiterate, though, so it does seem silly to bicker over that detail.[/quote]

Well I think it is not right to spread the story (the possible lie) that the child is illiterate and that it is because of his parents not homeschooling him.

You don't "fall through the cracks" when your name and situation is all over the internet and in the media.

If he is taking a yearly standerdized test (as he should be by law) then he has to be able to read the test and perform, which he is doing if he has not been taken from their care (which he hasn't).

He is in their care so the story isn't as Hassan tells it (and as people are being told here). It just doesn't make sense.

Lies and little storys reported by blogs shouldn't be passed off as fact. And it certainly isn't silly to correct such things or to call such stories out as not supported.

And it isn't a minor detail. It is not as big as the situation of his mother taking him away from hospital care which has resulted in his life being severely threatened, but it is child abuse. That being the case makes it important.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1875305' date='May 25 2009, 08:50 PM']Have you ever been through Chemo?[/quote]
People live through chemotherapy every day. Is it fun? No. It's awful. I know this because I've seen people go through it. I won't deny that it's terrible.
Is it possible though? Absolutely. Millions of people prove that.

To take one dose and decide it's too onerous is just silly.

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1875390' date='May 25 2009, 09:48 PM']People live through chemotherapy every day. Is it fun? No. It's awful. I know this because I've seen people go through it. I won't deny that it's terrible.
Is it possible though? Absolutely. Millions of people prove that.

To take one dose and decide it's too onerous is just silly.[/quote]

i didn't ask if you've seen people go through it, I asked if you, yourself has ever been through it but I guess we could assume the answer to that.

Reza

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1875395' date='May 25 2009, 10:53 PM']i didn't ask if you've seen people go through it, I asked if you, yourself has ever been through it but I guess we could assume the answer to that.

Reza[/quote]
Fine, allow me to clarify.

I have not been through chemotherapy, however the millions of people who have successfully completed chemotherapy sessions attest to the fact that it's quite within reach of an average human being.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1875395' date='May 26 2009, 12:53 AM']i didn't ask if you've seen people go through it, I asked if you, yourself has ever been through it but I guess we could assume the answer to that.

Reza[/quote]
And your point is?

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1875399' date='May 25 2009, 09:57 PM']Fine, allow me to clarify.

I have not been through chemotherapy, however the millions of people who have successfully completed chemotherapy sessions attest to the fact that it's quite within reach of an average human being.[/quote]

Since you haven't been through it, you can't say for sure what it's like, so you're hardly in the position to judge this thirteen year old.

I'd also like to add that my wife worked in oncology for quite some time, and in many nursing homes before that, and people's experiences are different. Some it's not bad, others it's very bad. The Star Tribune has a video in which his mother and him are telling of his gums in his mouth swelling to the point of not being able to see some of his teeth. Unless you've experienced it, you can talk all you want about what it's like but you don't know.

There are many people that choose not to go through it, and of those that have gone through it, many that say they would never do it again.

Reza

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1875408' date='May 25 2009, 11:04 PM']Since you haven't been through it, you can't say for sure what it's like, so you're hardly in the position to judge this thirteen year old.

I'd also like to add that my wife worked in oncology for quite some time, and in many nursing homes before that, and people's experiences are different. Some it's not bad, others it's very bad. The Star Tribune has a video in which his mother and him are telling of his gums in his mouth swelling to the point of not being able to see some of his teeth. Unless you've experienced it, you can talk all you want about what it's like but you don't know.

There are many people that choose not to go through it, and of those that have gone through it, many that say they would never do it again.

Reza[/quote]
...so the symptoms are going to be absolutely unbearable, to the point that it's better to cease what is quite probably LIFE SAVING treatment, after the FIRST DOSE?
I have a tough time buying that.

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1875390' date='May 25 2009, 11:48 PM']To take one dose and decide it's too onerous is just silly.[/quote]

I haven't been through chemo, but I have heard that it is excruciatingly painful. I could see where a person, especially a child, would say, "I don't want to do this ever again. Mom, please."

I can also see where a mother would look to other means. I can only imagine the pain that she has felt watching her child experience chemotherapy. I can understand why she would want to do what she did especially if she is being told it has healed others and she believes this.

However, rationally... it wasn't the best choice... morally it probably wasn't the best choice.

She isn't [i]meaning[/i] to kill her child I don't think. She loves her child, I think. Hopefully, now that she has returned, she will see that this has to happen and her and her husband will choose, however painful for them and Daniel, chemotherapy and thus life.

That, I think, would be the Catholic thing to do.

Edited May 26, 2009 by TotusTuusMaria

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1875404' date='May 25 2009, 10:02 PM']And your point is?[/quote]

What do you think my point is? I'm pretty clear... but what is your point? You seem to be making it clear that you don't want me to post here anymore. If that's the case, let me know and I'd gladly not post here anymore, as many others have done.

Reza

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1875410' date='May 26 2009, 12:06 AM']...so the symptoms are going to be absolutely unbearable, to the point that it's better to cease what is quite probably LIFE SAVING treatment, after the FIRST DOSE?
I have a tough time buying that.[/quote]

I think Reza is saying is that if we could step back and place ourselves in their shoes what they did is a bit more understandable.

When I first read this I thought what she has done was insane. It is insane. But, I can understand maybe some of the feelings she was having that might have motivated what she did. Watching your child suffer is not easy. Having him plead to you to never have to endure it again (which is what happens usually after a child experiences chemo) is not easy to take or hear. Any parent would look at other options and hope... even if everyone is telling them its wrong.

The child is back home in medical care at the moment. Lets just hope and pray that they choose to go through with chemo.

[Nihil Obstat]

I do understand that it's perfectly awful. I'm not saying it's easy.
Life is full of hard choices though, and when it comes to living or dying, we can, have and should make some pretty difficult choices.

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1875424' date='May 26 2009, 12:17 AM']I do understand that it's perfectly awful. I'm not saying it's easy.
Life is full of hard choices though, and when it comes to living or dying, we can, have and should make some pretty difficult choices.[/quote]

Absolutely Nihil. And lets hope that these parents make that difficult choice that will lead to Daniel's life being saved.

I do think maybe the blogs and just the people hearing this story in general could be a bit more sympathetic toward the situation. We can acknowledge that what she did was wrong without being so harsh toward her and the boy. She is watching her child die and he is dying. They don't need to be on the worst parents blog or being talked about on a forum by people saying that she never deserved a child.

Edited May 26, 2009 by TotusTuusMaria

[Hassan]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1875423' date='May 25 2009, 11:16 PM']I think Reza is saying is that if we could step back and place ourselves in their shoes what they did is a bit more understandable.

When I first read this I thought what she has done was insane. It is insane. But, I can understand maybe some of the feelings she was having that might have motivated what she did. Watching your child suffer is not easy. Having him plead to you to never have to endure it again (which is what happens usually after a child experiences chemo) is not easy to take or hear. Any parent would look at other options and hope... even if everyone is telling them its wrong.

The child is back home in medical care at the moment. Lets just hope and pray that they choose to go through with chemo.[/quote]


Hope in the irrational and moronic is not a luxury affordable to parents, who have a responsibility to the children under their care to make tough, difficult decisions and be the adult. I'm sure lot's of parents whose children are stricken with a horrible illness which will require a brutal cure to overcome would love to venture into comfortable escapism, grasping onto some stupid, fraudulent hope. The problem is that parents do not have the freedom to abdicate their duties to their children to be the adult, to be the one in the relationship willing to make tough minded, unpleasant decisions for the well being of their child, who does not have the capability to make such decisions. Particularly when the child is an illiterate with a learning disability, and obviously not capable of making the decision for himself.

[Nihil Obstat]

It would be tough love, but true love nonetheless.