Death Wins Again

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Paladin D' post='1869594' date='May 17 2009, 04:18 PM']Didn't he stop such a clause though? Or was that something else?[/quote]

I am pretty sure that he did try to stop the clause.

[CatholicCid]

Let's not forget the local Bishop's action by not attending, instead saying Mass outside in the Quad. I believe other Bishops and a possibly a Cardinal attended? Fr. John Corapi was present to give a speech as well.

The local Bishop's action calls to mind the words of, I believe, St. Ignatius in that the Church is where the Bishop is.

[Slappo]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1869604' date='May 17 2009, 02:30 PM']I know that a number of Bishops spoke out. But none took any real action against this debacle.

Yes I agree that it is good that the are speaking up. They only need to add teeth to their words.[/quote]

The thing is the only bishop that could take action is his local ordinary (that I'm aware of). I don't think any of the other bishops could excommunicate Fr. Jenkins or take the Catholic title from Notre Dame (which I would disagree with as an action anyway).

[KnightofChrist]

Today is still a dark day for those that are faithful to Mother Church. This will most likely make our duty to spread the true faith harder.

In my journeys in evangelism I always seem to run up against three types of people non-believers that always bring up the inaction that allowed the sex abuse scandal to happen in the first place. Altough much action has been made to clean it up. Fall away Catholics who believe that events such as today's is proof that the Church is slowing changing it's outdated ways. And lastly Non-Catholic Christians who bring up the inaction against those that call themselves Catholic but support the murder of babies.

In all three I feel as if I am drowning to find a response. Words are great and are better than nothing but I would like to have a lifeboat more often than not.

[Brother Adam]

Yes, it has directly affected the witnessing I am doing to Protestants and has made at least one person that I know of change his mind about pursuing RCIA this fall. He told me that what ever words are said inviting Obama to make a commencement address and receive a degree is an approval of his ideology, or at the very least that abortion doesn't matter to Catholics. I haven't been able to get anywhere since our Church hasn't done anything concrete about it. The argument we have had is more complex than I can explain here though.

Edited May 17, 2009 by Brother Adam

[Brother Vinny]

Brother Adam,

I share your frustration, but (perhaps due to a lack of knowledge about Church politics) am bewildered at what the bishop can do. I wouldn't mind seeing both the priest severely censured/excommunicated [i]and[/i] the school stripped of Catholic ties and support (could we Our Lady's name with us when we leave?). The latter should've been done when the school began rifting away from the Church in the '60s, and the former should have occurred around the time the school allowed [i]The Vagina Monologues[/i] to be performed on campus. Would there be detrimental consequences to either action? Almost certainly, but just as certain is the fact that these would be worth enduring on behalf of the innocent.

I guess I'm confused as to who has power and authority on these issues. I understand the local bishop has authority over the priest who presides over Notre Dame, correct? Should the bishop excommunicate the priest? If yes, why doesn't he? And whose decision is it that UND should remain a Catholic university? Finally, at what point would the Pope step in to assert authority?

[kamiller42]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' post='1869584' date='May 17 2009, 05:03 PM']The real story is the poll showing that for the first time since Roe v Wade, the American public is more pro-life than pro-death.

The war for life will not be won in the White House, the courtroom, or the media. It will be won in the hearts of the American people. Even if abortion stays legal, it is of naught if the law sits unused and the abortion industry one day folds due to lack of customers.


Everyone put down the kool-aid, turn off the TV, and load your weapon - your rosary. We are winning the war. Slowly, with millions of innocent unborn casualties, but we are winning. The blood of the innocents cries out for vengeance. They will have it, but not in this lifetime.[/quote]
It is true that any effective law requires the changing of hearts and minds, but do not underestimate the power of the law in assisting that change. We saw this with the Emancipation Proclamation outlawing slavery, the 18th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution sobering up a drunk America, and the civil rights laws of the 60s enforcing equality. Laws exist because man's heart is flawed. It can assist and act as a reminder to our hearts of what is in the best interest of the greater good of society.

"Fr. John Corapi was present to give a speech as well. "
Anyone happen to record this? I would love to hear it.

I will hand it to Obama's speech. It has the warmed over fuzzy words that would woo the spiritually luke warm. Upon closer examination, his words ring hollow and contradictory.

[quote]But Obama called for "open hearts, open minds, fair-minded words" in the midst of such persistent debates.[/quote]
Is calling an unborn baby a "punishment" an example of having an open heart or using a fair-minded word?

[quote]"Each side will continue to make its case to the public with passion and conviction. But surely we can do so without reducing those with differing views to caricature," he said.[/quote]
Would calling religious people "clingers" be a caricature? Besides, what greater insult is there than reducing a human to a "choice," viable tissue, or a "punishment?"

[quote]"Those who speak out against stem cell research may be rooted in admirable conviction about the sacredness of life, but so are the parents of a child with juvenile diabetes who are convinced that their son's or daughter's hardships might be relieved," he said.[/quote]
I have no doubt he left out "embryonic" when mentioning stem cell research as to make it appear pro-lifers a pre-historic cavemen who are enemies of science. Dare he look at the real success of adult stem cell research, which the Church supports? And did he actually compare diabetes to murder? Wow.

[quote]The president ceded no ground. But he said those on each side of the debate "can still agree that this is a heart-wrenching decision for any woman to make, with both moral and spiritual dimensions.[/quote]
Would he care to elaborate why it is so heart-wrenching and the moral and spiritual dimensions he is a speaking of? What conclusions is he afraid to make?

What was more disturbing than Obama and his speech at Notre Dame was the support of the university and the crowd. It's an institution of higher learning. Did they learn nothing about ideals higher than ourselves? What a sad sight they were, booing those standing up for the faith the university claims to represent, and laughing and yucking it up with another Pilate in the pilot's seat.

[Ziggamafu]

A priest was arrested and a pro-death president honored - by a Catholic university.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' post='1869737' date='May 17 2009, 08:55 PM']A priest was arrested and a pro-death president honored - by a Catholic university.[/quote]


And the Priest was arrested for being a Priest and Obama was honored for being pro choice

[Ziggamafu]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1869741' date='May 17 2009, 08:59 PM']And the Priest was arrested for being a Priest and Obama was honored for being pro choice [/quote]

Perhaps to avoid sarcasm I could state it more precisely:

A priest was arrested for praying and speaking in support of Catholic teaching and a president in public and vocal opposition to Catholic teaching (in an area defined as intrinsically evil in a deathly serious way) was honored - at a Catholic university.

Sound better?

[KnightofChrist]

The Priest was arrested for being a Priest doing his duty to protect and speak up for the innocent. Obama was given an award for his 'human rights' record of all things, by a Catholic University who is suppose to believe as Mother Church believes. That abortion is the killing of a human baby which is one of the greatest violations of human rights.

Edited May 18, 2009 by KnightofChrist

[dominicansoul]

i don't let obama upset me, but instead, i find myself calling out to God to bring His justice upon this earth...

for obama to express the desire for "fair-minded" abortion debate, while he takes actions to make abortion more accessible to women at every stage of abortion is appalling...

what is more appalling is the applause he received at these words...

[Hassan]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' post='1869747' date='May 17 2009, 08:13 PM']Perhaps to avoid sarcasm I could state it more precisely:

A priest was arrested for praying and speaking in support of Catholic teaching[/quote]


No, he was arrested for trespassing.

[quote]and a president in public and vocal opposition to Catholic teaching (in an area defined as intrinsically evil in a deathly serious way) was honored - at a Catholic university.

Sound better?[/quote]

I guess.

[reelguy227]

Words can't describe how sickened I am by what went on at Notre Dame today. It just goes to show that not only the faithful in America, but also the Church, have become lax and much less adamant and strict about their adherence to Church teachings. People just don't care about Church or God anymore...and it's quite sad.

The worst and most saddening part of all this is that the USCCB (the Church body that could really have had the biggest impact in the United States) didn't do anything to really condemn or denounce Notre Dame's actions. It was only a few Bishops here and there spread across the country that did that.

Whatever....

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1869741' date='May 17 2009, 09:59 PM']And the Priest was arrested for being a Priest and Obama was honored for being pro choice [/quote]

Yes, a priest was arrested on the property of a formerly Catholic school for trespassing by praying on the grounds of a formerly Catholic school. Who decided that a holy priest of God most high was trespassing? Notre Dame officials. Let us realize what actually happened there.

Even if Notre Dame did not invite Obama because he is prochoice, they trivialized all of the children who have been slaughtered because of the direct decisions of this president. While he may not be directly responsible for all abortions, Obama is responsible for those abortions that would have not happened accept that his decisions made it possible for women to kill their children.