Livin_the_MASS Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 [url="http://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/lastmenu.htm"]HERE[/url] is something to clear up this limbo stuff? [b][u]Notice it is Heaven, Hell, Purgatory[/b][/u]. The Last Things. Not limbo? Read JPII document if you like, it's good! Anyway check it out! Hope it helps! In the Love of Christ, Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 Thanks, Jason! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 Jason, will you stop spreading this argument through a thousand different threads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted March 27, 2004 Author Share Posted March 27, 2004 (edited) I didn't spread it, I just stopped it! There is no limbo. Therefore there is no debate. Heaven, Hell, Purgatory are the Last Things. God Bless, Jason PS Debates are not to start on Catholic A. anyway. Edited March 27, 2004 by Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 The Truth can be spread everywhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce S Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 There USED TO BE a "Limbo" ... I'm old enough to remember the days when I WAS TAUGHT IT AS OFFICIAL CHURCH DOCTRINE... But one merry day, SOMEONE....decided. God was WRONG, or the church was wrong...or XYZ ... was wrong. Of course the Catholic Church is never wrong, so it must have been a typo. Gotta love Cardinal Newman, coming AGAIN to save the day!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 Bruce, Can you show me where limbo was officially taught as a doctrine? You have me very curious! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce S Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 Bro Adam: If one goes to Catholic school for his childhood, and Mass every single Sunday, is confirmed, and does the entire Catholic thing... And CERTAIN "doctrines" are TOLD VERBALLY over and over the faithful, as FACT. They are FACT, even if Rome may have some dusty Latin weasle clause hanging around. Sorry, I run into this all the time nowadays, where things that EVERY Catholic over the age of 50 KNOWS FIRSTHAND was taught, is NOW .. retroactively RETRACTED and the church disavows ever teaching. Hogwash. We were there, we got the lessons, we WERE MOST CLEARLY taught these things as TRUE, ETERNAL, and CHURCH TRUTHS. It was the changes in so called GOD GIVEN CATHOLIC TRUTHS, as they, one by one, were changed that began my trip out the the Catholic Church. Don't let these young puppies on this forum try to sell you the bill of goods that Catholic truths are eternal, they are not, it is an ever moving target. Ask ANY older Catholic if the Catholic church of NOW, is the same as it was in the 1960s, it isn't.. not at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce S Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 St. Gregory of Nazianzus (circa 329 - circa 390) commented in Orat., XL, 23 that infants dying without baptism "will neither be admitted by the just judge to the glory of Heaven nor condemned to suffer punishment, since, though unsealed [by baptism], they are not wicked." This was the common view of the early Church Fathers. St. Augustine of Hippo (354 - 430) convinced the Council of Carthage (418 CE) to reject the concept of limbo "of any place...in which children who pass out of this life unbaptized live in happiness." According to the Catholic Encyclopedia: "St. Augustine and the African Fathers believed that unbaptized infants share in the common positive misery of the damned, and the very most that St. Augustine concedes is that their punishment is the mildest of all." i.e. they go to Hell for eternal punishment, but are not as badly treated as other inmates. St. Anselm (1033 - 1109 CE) supported St. Augustine's belief that "unbaptized children share in the positive sufferings of the damned [in Hell]." 3 Peter Abelard (1079 - 1142) deviated from St. Augustine by rejecting material torment (poena sensus) and retained only the pain of loss (poena damni) as the eternal punishment of unbaptized infants for their original sin. St. Thomas Aquinas (circa 1226 - 1274) was the first major theologian who broke with St. Augustine by speculating that Limbo was a place or state of perfect natural happiness. Later writers, {e.g. Griolamo Savonarola (1452 - 1498) and Ambrose Catharinus (16th century)} believed that "the souls of unbaptized children will be united to glorious bodies at the Resurrection." 3 In the late 18th century, a group known as the Jansenists reverted to St. Augustine's belief and rejected the idea of Limbo. In response, Pope Pius VI wrote Auctorem Fidei (1794), which condemned their teaching as being "false, rash, and injurious to Catholic education" because they denied the existence of a place "which the faithful generally designate by the name of limbo for children." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce S Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 In fact, some hard core Catholic sites are STILL promoting Limbo. [url="http://www.domestic-church.com/CONTENT.DCC/19990901/SCRMNTL/baptism_one.htm#9"]http://www.domestic-church.com/CONTENT.DCC...ptism_one.htm#9[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted March 27, 2004 Author Share Posted March 27, 2004 The Catholic Church's doctrine grows as time goes on. The Holy Spirit reveals all Truth's. You are playing games. There is no limbo! Read the link I gave! You have no argument. Thanks for saying I'm young though! (sometimes I don't feel so young!)he! he! The article I gave a link to is what the Church teaches. The Pope has, spoken period. God Bless, Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 Wow. Very interesting, thank you. It seems that Catholic teaching has actually changed over time. I'll admit though I don't remember hearing about limbo in my CCD classes in the 80's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted March 27, 2004 Author Share Posted March 27, 2004 Doctrine stays the same. It just blossoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted March 27, 2004 Author Share Posted March 27, 2004 Laudate_Dominum, puts it well here! [quote]Catholic doctrine does change in a certain sense. Namely that our understanding of that doctrine deepens and can become more clear etc.. This does not mean that the Church invents new doctrines.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 The problem is if a doctrine was once taught as being official and is now retracted as a doctrine. Mary as Mother of God was never retracted, merely expanded on. But to completely retract a doctrine once taught as official would legitimately show the claims of the Catholic Church to be false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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