Livin_the_MASS Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 Yes he take a CCC quote about halfway through and talks about it. But it would be good for you to read it when the little sweetheart is not being a pickle! lol That way like you said you can catch everything. God Bless, Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 (edited) Jason has the wonderful habit of never addressing any argument against him. He just keeps rambling. Never mind what the Church has always said. Never mind what popes, saints, and councils have said. They were all bad Catholics becasue they did not know mercy. Right! Edited March 28, 2004 by popestpiusx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 [quote name='Jason' date='Mar 27 2004, 08:31 PM'] I can't be the judge of that! Are you getting my point of veiw at all? Now it's different if someone broke into my house, I would do what ever it takes to protect my family. But for a criminal that is already in custody and under control, That is not harming anyone, how can we say death? Mercy! Are you getting me? God Bless You, Jason [/quote] Getting what? You have not said anything. People, get off the emotion train and argue based on Cathlolic principles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 So you wish for endless disputes? I give the facts, read the article. I think I handled it just fine; Your intitled to your opinion! Why the attack brother! I never said anything to you? Anyway read this thread before you judge what I do. I give facts period.... Anyway, God Bless Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 [quote name='popestpiusx' date='Mar 27 2004, 10:49 PM'] Getting what? You have not said anything. People, get off the emotion train and argue based on Cathlolic principles. [/quote] I DID READ THE ARTICLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 What facts have you given? You say nothing in your posts but short and empty one liners. I know you have said nothing to me. That is my point. You ignore any argument against as though it were absurd. READ THE WRITINGS OF THE SAINTS, POPES AND COUNCILS. Study some moral theology then come back and argue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trying2BFaithful Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 Food for Thought: Since 1950, 36% of all executed "criminals" on death row have later been proven innocent. I read this senior year of HS in my theology class. The official Church teaching is that the DP is ONLY acceptable if the perpetrator must be put to death in order to protect society. In many countries, especially in the third world, prison escapes are common and a real threat. In extreme cases, certain individuals must be put to death in order to protect the physical safety of society. In the U.S. today, this is undeniably not the situation. We have the means and police force to house dangerous criminals without escape in maximum security prison. In my mind, there is really no excuse for it in our society unless it is an icon killer like Timothy McVeigh who could have perhaps influenced his "friends" on the outside. The Church hasn't taken a hard stance on the issue mainly because there is a large room for interpretation in the stance. One thing is clear, however, if we are putting someone to death, there has to, at the very least, be not one shred of doubt about guilt. This is unfortunately not typical. Most cases of capital punishment are abominations. Pure and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 36%??? Whatever. If you are going to make a claim as outlandish as that, you need to provide some sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 [quote name='popestpiusx' date='Mar 27 2004, 10:58 PM']36%??? Whatever. If you are going to make a claim as outlandish as that, you need to provide some sources.[/quote] Not enough theology for you huh? Did you even read the article I posted? God Bless You Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 (edited) The article proves my statements! Does this upset you? Or do I need to type out the article so I have more Theology! Edited March 28, 2004 by Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 The CCC paragraph in the article is the exact came one that I quoted on the previous page. [quote]The Pope states that "…the nature and extent of punishment must be carefully evaluated and decided upon, and ought not go to the extreme of executing the offender except in cases of absolute necessity: in other words, when it would not be possible otherwise to defend society."[/quote] I think this refers back to the sort of instance my question is based on--when a criminal proves to be a tremendous threat to society in and out of the big house. If a criminal is such a threat that even the guards and other inmates going through rehabilitation (which respects their human dignity) in the facility, it is my opinion that such a case could fall under the instance of being impossible to defend society against that evil and capitol punnishment would be acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 You failed to read the part saying[b][u] repaying violence for violence is wrong [/u][/b]and will lead to disaster. And that the Pope wished the abolishment of the death penalty and that the Church sees no need of it, since we have the recources for correctional centers! God Bless, Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 (edited) [quote][b]In the Catholic Church, teaching on the death penalty has developed over time[/b]. For centuries, the Church accepted the right of the state to take a life in order to protect society. But over time and in the light of new realities, Catholic teaching now recognizes that there are non-violent means to protect society and to hold offenders accountable. [u][b]Church teaching now clearly argues for the abolition of capital punishment[/u][/b].[/quote] Bolds added by me! God Bless Jason Edited March 28, 2004 by Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 I didn't fail to read any part. The Church teaches that in SOME cases the DP is allowable. The case I suggested is one where correction and rehabilitation is of no avail and keeping the prisoner is only bringing harm to others who rehab. IS aiding. What I suggested is that such a case falls within Church teaching on the DP. Your claim that the DP is totally wrong and/or against Church teaching is inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted March 28, 2004 Share Posted March 28, 2004 (edited) [quote]The words and actions of Pope John Paul II in St. Louis brought renewed attention to the debate on the death penalty. It provided renewed moral support to those that have worked tirelessly over the last several decades for an end to capital punishment and placed the Catholic Church even more squarely on the side of those calling for its abolition.[/quote] Is not the Pope the Head of the Church? You must of skipped this part. And I am NOT GOING AGAINST THE TEACHING OF THE CHURCH!!! Little judgemental statement there huh! I have given you the facts, do with them what you will, but don't tell me I'm not following the Church!!!!! That's your opinion. Read the statement above. I follow the Vicar of Christ! Who is the visiable leader of Christ's Catholic Church! Peace Edited March 28, 2004 by Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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