Livin_the_MASS Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Thats the way you feel! To say a statement by a bishop is absurd is pretty strong! God Bless You Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 [quote name='PhatPhred' date='Mar 30 2004, 11:49 PM'] This is true. The authority of the USCCB teaching on this issue derives directly from the authority of the individual bishops endorsing the USCCB statement. I don't see what difference this makes, however. [/quote] The difference is that not all the Bishops are against the death penalty becasue it is NOT a matter of the faith. It is not required of a Catholic to be against the death penalty. The Holy Father is personally opposed to it. Fine. His opinion does not bind me to ignore 2000 years of Church teaching. Canon Law does not require that I change my beliefs based on the personal opinions of anyone, even if he be the Pope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatPhred Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 [quote name='jrndveritatis' date='Mar 31 2004, 01:01 AM'][quote]Also recall that Keating and Dunningan's dissent extends to the non-prudential part of the Holy Father's teaching as well.[/quote] For example?[/quote] This is the "A Development of Doctrine?" section of Dunningan's essay that begins with: [quote]The insights of Dulles and Rutler offer assistance in resolving this apparent conflict. However, the distinction between teachings and prudential judgments is relevant primarily to the [i]practical[/i] question of whether or not the circumstances justifying the death penalty are virtually nonexistent. It is less clear that this distinction resolves the [i]doctrinal[/i] issue of whether or not retribution remains a legitimate purpose of capital punishment.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 ppx, The article clearly stated how the Church stands on this issue. You can say what ever you want. I'm not judging anyone who supports the death penalty. I'm just saying my choice is to vote it out! I have that right as well! The Pope diagrees therefore so do I. You have the right to your feelings in this matter and so do I. God Bless Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 [quote name='Jason' date='Mar 31 2004, 12:10 AM'] Thats the way you feel! To say a statement by a bishop is absurd is pretty strong! God Bless You Jason [/quote] Come now, fellow. Absurd statements from bishops today are commonplace. There is nothing wrong with admiting that. Cardinal Keeler, just last year echoed Cardinal Kasper, that Catholics should not target Jews for conversion becasue Jews are in a saving covenant. That, my friend, is absurd. What Archbishop Martino said was absurd. Martino has said a number absurd things as jrndveritatis pointed out. Why is that so difficult to swallow. There are many wolves in shepherds clothing. Some are even well intentioned men, but they mislead the faithful nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 [quote name='PhatPhred' date='Mar 31 2004, 12:16 AM'] For example?[/QUOTE] This is the "A Development of Doctrine?" section of Dunningan's essay that begins with: [/quote] I don't get the point of your post. Please elaborate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 [quote]There are many wolves in shepherds clothing. Some are even well intentioned men, but they mislead the faithful nonetheless.[/quote] Really Strong!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Strong??? MAybe. Incorrect??? Sadly, no! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 If you don't realize this you are in for a rude awakening someday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatPhred Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 [quote name='popestpiusx' date='Mar 31 2004, 01:21 AM']I don't get the point of your post. Please elaborate.[/quote] jrndveritatis asked where Keating and Dunningan dissented from the non-prudential moral teaching of Pope John Paul II on capital punishment. I indicated the relevant section of Dunningan's essay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 (edited) How can you tell me that a Bishop trying for the moral good of God's people take up an issue and say we can do this better! To say he is a wolf? huh whatever! Say what you want! A good tree cannot bear bad fruit nor can a bad tree bear good fruit! God Bless You Jason Edited March 31, 2004 by Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 [quote name='Jason' date='Mar 31 2004, 12:32 AM'] How can you tell me that a Bishop trying for the moral good of God's people take up an issue and say we can do this better! To say he is a wolf? huh whatever! Say what you want! A good tree cannot bear bad fruit nor can a bad tree bear good fruit! God Bless You Jason [/quote] I did not say Martino was a wolf. I said there are many wovles out there. Second, the mere fact that a bishop takes up a moral issue does not mean that he will do it well. Remember, Judas was a bishop too. You need to study Church history some. These assertions would not surprise you so much. You act as though all bishops are beyond reproach merely by being bishops. Where do you get such an idea? "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit nor can a bad tree bear good fruit!" What does this have to do with anything?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 [quote]"A good tree cannot bear bad fruit nor can a bad tree bear good fruit!" What does this have to do with anything??[/quote] Pray about it. God Bless You Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 [color=red]edited by foundsheep:Personal attack[/color] Please, my friend, if you truely love and desire to serve the Church, learn what She actually teaches and defend her with intelligent, well argued defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 God Bless You man! Hope you have a goodnight! God Bless Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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