RezaMikhaeil Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 I believe all these charismatic "things", are simply replacements of the sacraments. We used to recieve the holy spirit in christmation, charismatics now say that the evidence that you have the holy spirit its in speaking in tongues, "baptism of the holy spirit". We recieve the sacrament of annointing oil, now they replace that with "laying hands". You tell me what's really going on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwannabe 777 Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 [quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1868250' date='May 15 2009, 08:29 PM']I believe all these charismatic "things", are simply replacements of the sacraments. We used to recieve the holy spirit in christmation, charismatics now say that the evidence that you have the holy spirit its in speaking in tongues, "baptism of the holy spirit". We recieve the sacrament of annointing oil, now they replace that with "laying hands". You tell me what's really going on...[/quote] That is not true, baptism of the holy spirit is not a sacrament but a reinforcement of the sacrament of baptism and confirmation. Not every Charismatic has the gift of tongues my friend. Tongues is the least of the gifts. Get your facts straight my dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted May 16, 2009 Author Share Posted May 16, 2009 Using the term "baptism of the Holy Spirit" to refer to anything but the Sacrament of Baptism (or Baptism of Blood or Baptism of Desire) is a horrible misapplication of the world. When St. John the Baptist said, "He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost" (Mark 1:8), he was clearly referring to the Sacrament of Baptism, not some phenomenon which was unheard of in Christianity until 20th Century Protestantism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwannabe 777 Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1868336' date='May 15 2009, 11:09 PM']Using the term "baptism of the Holy Spirit" to refer to anything but the Sacrament of Baptism (or Baptism of Blood or Baptism of Desire) is a horrible misapplication of the world. When St. John the Baptist said, "He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost" (Mark 1:8), he was clearly referring to the Sacrament of Baptism, not some phenomenon which was unheard of in Christianity until 20th Century Protestantism.[/quote] Ok. Think whatever you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwannabe 777 Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1868336' date='May 15 2009, 11:09 PM']Using the term "baptism of the Holy Spirit" to refer to anything but the Sacrament of Baptism (or Baptism of Blood or Baptism of Desire) is a horrible misapplication of the world. When St. John the Baptist said, "He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost" (Mark 1:8), he was clearly referring to the Sacrament of Baptism, not some phenomenon which was unheard of in Christianity until 20th Century Protestantism.[/quote] Ok. Think whatever you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwannabe 777 Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1868336' date='May 15 2009, 11:09 PM']Using the term "baptism of the Holy Spirit" to refer to anything but the Sacrament of Baptism (or Baptism of Blood or Baptism of Desire) is a horrible misapplication of the world. When St. John the Baptist said, "He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost" (Mark 1:8), he was clearly referring to the Sacrament of Baptism, not some phenomenon which was unheard of in Christianity until 20th Century Protestantism.[/quote] Ok. Think whatever you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted May 16, 2009 Author Share Posted May 16, 2009 It was absolutely necessary to say that three times, wasn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 [quote name='saintwannabe 777' post='1868177' date='May 15 2009, 05:31 PM']Are you serious??? You know what guys. A lot of you on this site continue to insult people like me. Honestly, do it. Continue to do it. I will pray for you.[/quote] You are taking things far to personally. There is such a thing as debating ideas. This is such a debate, it is not a debate or throwing insults around about people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwannabe 777 Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1868346' date='May 15 2009, 11:15 PM']It was absolutely necessary to say that three times, wasn't it? [/quote] I didn't mean to Finally, I've laughed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RezaMikhaeil Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1868336' date='May 15 2009, 08:09 PM']Using the term "baptism of the Holy Spirit" to refer to anything but the Sacrament of Baptism (or Baptism of Blood or Baptism of Desire) is a horrible misapplication of the world. When St. John the Baptist said, "He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost" (Mark 1:8), he was clearly referring to the Sacrament of Baptism, not some phenomenon which was unheard of in Christianity until 20th Century Protestantism.[/quote] This was my point! Charismatics use scriptures like that to prove their movement, yet what's interesting is that is the same scripture that we use in regards to the sacrament of baptism. Charismatic Catholics use it to imply both, but it can't be both... it's either one or the other. Reza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 If we want to unify all Christians, we first have to start with ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picchick Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 (edited) You know what...maybe there isn't any theological and liturgical basis. But there is something to be said for human touch. There is nothing sinful, nothing bad, nothing negative that comes from praying over someone. If anything there is something that will bring a person closer to God. I have seen people pray over another person in a great time of need. What is the difference if we say "I will pray for you." and "Let me pray over you." "let me pray with you." Nothing. Except maybe the fact that my hand is on their shoulder. Again, what is more comforting than human touch? When I pray for someone, I usually say, "Lord, please look over so and so. Please keep them in their love." If I pray over someone which is rare but I still do it once in a while it is the same prayer. Only I am holding them. Nothing wrong with that. Meg Edited May 16, 2009 by picchick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1868151' date='May 15 2009, 06:54 PM']Good question Resurrexi! But I am sure that you already know where this new practice originates. [/quote] So you think people praying over a sick person is a new thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted May 16, 2009 Author Share Posted May 16, 2009 (edited) Praying over a sick person is a Sacrament. And guess who are the only ones who can do it validly? Priests. Edited May 16, 2009 by Resurrexi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1868638' date='May 16 2009, 11:32 AM']Praying over a sick person is a Sacrament. And guess who are the only ones who can do it validly? Priests.[/quote] Somehow I don't recall that on the list of seven sacraments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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