dairygirl4u2c Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 (edited) why didn't jesus fight back when he was being arrested etc to be crucified? i don't see why it'd be necessary for him to just take it, cause we're allowed to do self defense, etc. and per atonement, he would have been able to atone with any death he incurred. (now that i think about it though, maybe God would never allow him to die, but murder, yes? i don't know) was it because he was apparently violating the laws (claimining a divine connection etc)? and so an apparent violation shold allow him to die at the 'just system''s wrath even if wrong? (which would imply it's wrong to try to escape if you're wrongly convicted for life in prison) i can see 'moral persuasion' ideas. ie, he didn't want to appear to be someone advocating violence for violence etc. and it might be hard to distinguish his acts from otehr bad things. or, it was his way to illustrate the greatest love for man through undergoing one of the the worst possible conditions yet still not giving up on us. or to demonstrate that he is capable of overcoming even a cruicifixtion and anything the world has to offer. (im big on 'christus victor' atonment ideas - see Gustaf_Aulén) or maybe... a person has a 'right' and it wont be held against them to fight back... but it's still a superior thing or at least loving thing to do, not to fight back? and it's not wrong not to fight back, to make this idea make sense. those kind of make sense. but i never really had a good sense of why this is the case he didn't resist. Edited May 13, 2009 by dairygirl4u2c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 [quote]Sometimes when you follow Jesus, you have to lose in order to win. That’s what Jesus meant when he said to Peter, “Put your sword back in its place for all who draw the sword will die by the sword” (Matthew 26:52). Brute force does not advance Christ’s kingdom. We cannot accomplish God’s work by bullying people into submission. When we try that approach, it may produce short-term results but it always backfires in the end because the appeal to brute force means that we don’t really believe in God. If we did, we wouldn’t try to take matters into our own hands. “Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?” (v. 53). Twelve legions would be at least 72,000 angels. Do you think 72,000 angels could handle the soldiers that came out to arrest Jesus? But if Jesus had that sort of power at his disposal, why didn’t he use it? Jesus refrained from calling on those angels because he knew that his arrest was necessary to fulfill God’s plan. “It must happen in this way” (v. 54).[/quote] i dont know why he said that proverbial quote 'those who live by the sword..." in this intance. (it'd def make sense in other instances but interesting points from jesus in response to my thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I have had people ask me if Jesus' non-action to save himself was a form of suicide. I explained that Jesus was engaging in self-defense, but in the defense of others section. He was saving us. That was his job. He was like the man who stays behind to allow others to retreat to safety in a war movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1865748' date='May 12 2009, 09:54 PM']why didn't jesus fight back when he was being arrested etc to be crucified? but i never really had a good sense of why this is the case he didn't resist.[/quote] Considering present rendition to this historical gospel….. Fight back? Against whom? Against sinners? Think about this, why then it is written in Matt 27:46 [color="#FF0000"]About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"-which means, "My God, my God , why have you forsaken me?" [/color] What do you think? Why Jesus will say these words? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Jesus hadn't come to die through fighting. Nor did He come to establish and army. I have no problem dying by the sword. And God never said it's bad to die fighting. Read the OT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 [quote name='reyb' post='1865934' date='May 13 2009, 08:03 AM']Think about this, why then it is written in Matt 27:46 [color="#FF0000"]About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"-which means, "My God, my God , why have you forsaken me?" [/color] What do you think? Why Jesus will say these words?[/quote] This is in reference to Psalm 22:1, "1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Why art thou so far from helping me, from the words of my groaning?" The entire 22nd Psalm relates to the righteous sufferer, and is an image that runs through Matthew 27. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1865768' date='May 12 2009, 11:25 PM']I have had people ask me if Jesus' non-action to save himself was a form of suicide. I explained that Jesus was engaging in self-defense, but in the defense of others section. He was saving us. That was his job. He was like the man who stays behind to allow others to retreat to safety in a war movie.[/quote] He was not killed by His will, but by the will of others. He came to be an example to us, to preserve our eternal lives (much as you stated above). A good response perhaps would be 'Can it really be suicide if He knew he would ressurect?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 [quote name='reyb' post='1865934' date='May 13 2009, 09:03 AM']Considering present rendition to this historical gospel….. Fight back? Against whom? Against sinners? Think about this, why then it is written in Matt 27:46 [color="#FF0000"]About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"-which means, "My God, my God , why have you forsaken me?" [/color] What do you think? Why Jesus will say these words?[/quote] Those words in particular have always been a little confusing to me as well - can anyone provide an explanation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1866246' date='May 13 2009, 02:31 PM']This is in reference to Psalm 22:1, "1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Why art thou so far from helping me, from the words of my groaning?" The entire 22nd Psalm relates to the righteous sufferer, and is an image that runs through Matthew 27.[/quote] Serves-me right for not reading the whole thread. Does this count as a double post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 [quote name='Didacus' post='1866294' date='May 13 2009, 02:43 PM']A good response perhaps would be 'Can it really be suicide if He knew he would ressurect?'[/quote] Oo, that's an interesting point. That might apply to everyone who commits suicide though, and then we'll have another 10 page thread that gets nasty and closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1866370' date='May 13 2009, 04:38 PM']That might apply to everyone who commits suicide though, and then we'll have another 10 page thread that gets nasty and closed.[/quote] ROFL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwannabe 777 Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 (edited) [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1865748' date='May 12 2009, 10:54 PM']why didn't jesus fight back when he was being arrested etc to be crucified? i don't see why it'd be necessary for him to just take it, cause we're allowed to do self defense, etc. and per atonement, he would have been able to atone with any death he incurred. (now that i think about it though, maybe God would never allow him to die, but murder, yes? i don't know) was it because he was apparently violating the laws (claimining a divine connection etc)? and so an apparent violation shold allow him to die at the 'just system''s wrath even if wrong? (which would imply it's wrong to try to escape if you're wrongly convicted for life in prison) i can see 'moral persuasion' ideas. ie, he didn't want to appear to be someone advocating violence for violence etc. and it might be hard to distinguish his acts from otehr bad things. or, it was his way to illustrate the greatest love for man through undergoing one of the the worst possible conditions yet still not giving up on us. or to demonstrate that he is capable of overcoming even a cruicifixtion and anything the world has to offer. (im big on 'christus victor' atonment ideas - see Gustaf_Aulén) or maybe... a person has a 'right' and it wont be held against them to fight back... but it's still a superior thing or at least loving thing to do, not to fight back? and it's not wrong not to fight back, to make this idea make sense. those kind of make sense. but i never really had a good sense of why this is the case he didn't resist.[/quote] It was the Father's Will for Jesus to die for the atonement of sins. I don't know if someone said this already, but these verses perfectly illustrate this in my opinion John 18:10-11 Matthew 26:51-54 Edited May 13, 2009 by saintwannabe 777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now