Marie-Therese Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Does anyone know anything about this order...know any of the sisters, know the reputation of this convent? I frequently communicate with them in terms of ordering sacramentals and such from their store, and have been very spiritually drawn to them in terms of vocation, but don't know anything about them. Any info, anyone visited there? I appreciate any info you might have! Just fyi...a cloistered vocation is my dream, but if it happens it will be a long time off. I'm in my early 30s with an adolescent daughter. If I am ever admitted I will be a late vocation. In the meantime I can dream, and try to learn about the different orders of Carmelites. My desire is to be a cloistered Carmelite contemplative. I know Annie (Nunsense) is in a position similar to mine and she just entered the postulancy in Sheffield, so that gives me much hope. In the meantime I simply lean on the Lord and learn what my Savior desires of me. My Lady has embraced me in such a loving manner, and I have placed myself in her guidance, because I know that her will is to lead me in the path of her beloved Son. Thank you all for listening and for any info. Pax Christi!! Peyton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotusTuusMaria Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 They have wonderful sacramentals, don't they? And they are very kind. I contacted them in the past by letter because, from their website, I loved everything I saw. We exchanged some letters. They never mentioned the Holy Father and faithfulness to Rome anywhere in their letters or on their website, and seeing as they do have the EF I became a little hesitant. I contacted the diocese of Colorado Springs. I suggest you do that as well so they can better explain the Carmel's situation to you. They can fax you something I believe... they did that for me. They are not recognized by the Carmelite Order as Carmelite nuns and the diocese has termed them a "renegade" community not in communion with the diocese. I know the situation pertained to them moving to the diocese without the Bishop's approval/permission and the priests that are their confessors and such (another "renegade" community in the diocese) were celebrating the EF before the Motu Proprio without the permission of the bishop. There was some tension there. I called earlier this year to see if their position has changed any. Unfortunately, it hasn't, but lets keep them in prayer. They really are very good, and it sounds like from the letters I received from them that they have hopes of being recognized and so forth. Hopefully, they are working on it. I will keep your situation in prayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marie-Therese Posted May 10, 2009 Author Share Posted May 10, 2009 TotusTuusMaria, thank you so much for that information. I have noticed that same thing (the absence of mention of being in communion with the Holy Father) considering their particular devotion to the EF. In all the listings of recognized Carmelite orders, I never saw their convent listed, which gave me pause. I also thought it strange that they state that they are "traditional observance" but claim to be discalced...maybe I'm overanalyzing but I thought that those of "traditional observance" were O.Carm. Not that that particular item made any great difference but I had an odd feeling that I couldn't shake. However, I pray for them continuously as they have always been profoundly generous to me in our correspondence, and I hope that they are able to resolve their situation with the diocese, as they seem to me to be a genuinely pious, committed order in love with our Savior. They are quite austere, but that seems to be an attracting point to me. And the photos of their chapel while chanting the Office are ethereal, aren't they? Related question...since there is question of their recognition, if the items I received from them were blessed by the priests affiliated with their order, is that blessing valid or should I have these items blessed again by my parish priest? I certainly don't want to be overscrupulous, but my desire is to make sure that I am faithful to our Holy Father and to Rome. Thank you again for the information, and also for your prayers. They are most appreciated. I will pray for your intentions as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InHisLove726 Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 I, too, thought this monastery was very beautiful, especially after looking at the pictures of the nuns. I mean, who wouldn't want a clothing ceremony like this: [img]http://www.sistersofcarmel.org/pics/clothing.jpg[/img] But, I sent them an email asking various questions, and one of the Sisters responded back asking if I was familiar with the EF or just the OF (I only know OF) and if I had a history of mental or physical illnesses. I told them that I had major depression, but I was off my medication and doing much better. She emailed me back and told me that they believed I did not have a genuine vocation with them because of my depression. In the letter, this is how they worded it: [quote]Depression is not compatible with the contemplative lifestyle of a Carmelite nun.[/quote] Well, you can imagine I was very hurt by these statements, and I asked her why she was not willing to try to discern with me just because I had a history of depression. She replied back: [quote]We have discerned that you are not called here. If you feel that our statements upset you, then you have cause to look elsewhere.[/quote] I don't like blanket statements. Not everyone with depression has to be on medication and/or therapy for the rest of their life. I've been off my medication since October 2008, and I couldn't be better! I decided that she was wrong and depression would not hinder me from pursuing my vocation. I felt a deep conviction that being a religious Sister was what I was called to, and the Carmelites were where I belonged. Well, I spoke to TotusTuusMaria and she told me about the renegade problem. It was then that my mind was woken up to the fact that Jesus had protected me from entering an order not recognized by His Holy Mother Church! And that, IMHO, was the best present He's ever given me besides my vocation! He truly loves us and wants nothing for the best of us. I still continue to pray and think about the Sisters of Carmel, and I hope they will come back to the Church. In the meantime, I'm trying to focus on my vocation to the Carmelite Sisters of the Divine Heart of Jesus! I found out I am not called to be cloistered, though I have a great attraction to it. I would recommend that you give the Discalced Carmelite Nuns of Arlington, TX a looksie when you get the chance. [url="http://www.carmelnuns.com/"]http://www.carmelnuns.com/[/url] I truly loved discerning with them before I found my vocation with the Carmelite Sisters DCJ. They are beautiful! God bless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marie-Therese Posted May 11, 2009 Author Share Posted May 11, 2009 Thanks so much for the link!! Arlington looks like an amazing place...it looks very beautiful and peaceful. God certainly preserved you in terms of "turning you off," so to speak, from the CO community. I hope that your vocation with the Carmelite Sisters DCJ is fruitful and brings you close in communion with our Lord. Bless you, pax Christi! Peyton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotusTuusMaria Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 [quote]I also thought it strange that they state that they are "traditional observance" but claim to be discalced...maybe I'm overanalyzing but I thought that those of "traditional observance" were O.Carm.[/quote] Ancient Observance is O. Carm, I believe. I think they are referring to the fact that they use the original constitutions of St. Teresa of Avila, not reformed after Vatican II. [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=58540"]Here[/url] is the thread on the different constitutions of the Discalced Carmelites. If you haven't read it, I'm sure you'll enjoy it and find it helpful. [quote]Not that that particular item made any great difference but I had an odd feeling that I couldn't shake. However, I pray for them continuously as they have always been profoundly generous to me in our correspondence, and I hope that they are able to resolve their situation with the diocese, as they seem to me to be a genuinely pious, committed order in love with our Savior. They are quite austere, but that seems to be an attracting point to me. And the photos of their chapel while chanting the Office are ethereal, aren't they?[/quote] Absolutely. I really can't say anything about them being unkind or giving off any kind of vibe that was not, like you said, genuinely pious. They were very kind to me. They have a great love of our Blessed Mother. They speak so eloquently on the charism of Carmel. They gave me so much helpful advice in discernment through what letters we did exchange... they came off very holy and wise to me. It really is a shame that they are not regularized and in a proper situation with the diocese, but through prayer I hope it comes. I think they are good sisters, but just in a bad situation. I continue to order from them despite this (I had a friend tell me that it was alright to do so). They make some of the most beautiful things! A Dominican priest I know ordered a rosary for his habit and it came and was sooo beautiful and well made. And yeah, their website is gorgeous. The pictures of the sisters are beautiful. [quote]Related question...since there is question of their recognition, if the items I received from them were blessed by the priests affiliated with their order, is that blessing valid or should I have these items blessed again by my parish priest? I certainly don't want to be overscrupulous, but my desire is to make sure that I am faithful to our Holy Father and to Rome.[/quote] hmm... I really don't know. The Bishop [url="http://www.diocs.org/q&a/answers.cfm?question=49servants"]wrote this[/url]... I don't know. I would just get it blessed again by another priest so I wouldn't have reservations about it and probably ask the priest his opinion... I just don't know. Thanks for the prayers! Much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InHisLove726 Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 [quote name='Marie-Therese' post='1863861' date='May 10 2009, 11:04 PM']Thanks so much for the link!! Arlington looks like an amazing place...it looks very beautiful and peaceful. God certainly preserved you in terms of "turning you off," so to speak, from the CO community. I hope that your vocation with the Carmelite Sisters DCJ is fruitful and brings you close in communion with our Lord. Bless you, pax Christi! Peyton[/quote] God bless you, too! Mother Maria is the Prioress of the Arlington, TX Carmel. She sent me a whole package of stuff, so, even though you have to wait until your daughter grows up before you pursue a vocation, it wouldn't hurt to look at the material. I am very excited about my vocation with the Carmelite DCJ community, and I can't wait to be with them for 6 weeks in only 5 more days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kavalamyself Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 I have heard they are very holy and very good. I would like to visit them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotusTuusMaria Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 [quote name='kavalamyself' post='1864585' date='May 11 2009, 09:45 PM']I have heard they are very holy and very good. I would like to visit them.[/quote] Oh, they are. They are just not cooperating and being faithful to the bishop and hence the Church which is very important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kavalamyself Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 I am confused. Are they what people call a schism order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinytherese Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 [quote name='kavalamyself' post='1864885' date='May 12 2009, 02:10 AM']I am confused. Are they what people call a schism order?[/quote] In a sense yes because they are going their own way and operating as a community without approval. It's too bad. They are very kind and generous nuns. I almost went on a visit with them when I was a tradie but then I found out about their status after being in contact with them for a long time. If you want to go to a community that celebrates the traditional latin mass then go to the Benedictine Sisters of Mary Queen of the Apostles. The prioress their informed me of the status of these Carmelites. When I brought it up with them they told me straight up that yes she was right and that if I felt uncomfortable with their status and didn't want to visit them anymore then that was fine with them. They understood. I still tried to visit them and I regret trying after I knew their status. I was just such a tradie then that I thought that they were my only shot at getting into the order that I adored so much. It's such a shame that they are a renegade group. The last time I talked to them though, they were full anyway so thats why I wasn't able to visit them. They told me that they didn't have any more room. I regard that as a blessing though. It would have driven me farther down in heresy. There is another traditional carmelite community that has the latin mass in Nevada. I don't remember where in Nevada specifically though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotusTuusMaria Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 [quote name='kavalamyself' post='1864885' date='May 12 2009, 02:10 AM']I am confused. Are they what people call a schism order?[/quote] yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kavalamyself Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 I just looked at their whole website. They look really great but I now see that they are not within the Church. Also, I am very disappointed to hear of that letter they wrote to In His Love. I have received letters like that before (but not about depression, a different issue) and I don't think it is very kind at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InHisLove726 Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 [quote name='kavalamyself' post='1865648' date='May 12 2009, 07:48 PM']I just looked at their whole website. They look really great but I now see that they are not within the Church. Also, I am very disappointed to hear of that letter they wrote to In His Love. I have received letters like that before (but not about depression, a different issue) and I don't think it is very kind at all.[/quote] It is really hard to hear, but I am over it. I just try to warn others about it. Since I've already applied to another order, my focus is on my upcoming formation, not on supposedly lost chances that were never there in the first place. Thank God that I was given a wakeup call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemma Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 [quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1863883' date='May 11 2009, 12:18 AM']Ancient Observance is O. Carm, I believe. I think they are referring to the fact that they use the original constitutions of St. Teresa of Avila, not reformed after Vatican II.[/quote] O.Carm. are the Carmelites of the Ancient Observance. They are what St. Teresa of Avila was before her OCD reform. The nuns themselves weren't founded until the 1400s, if I remember correctly. There are three O.Carm. monasteries for women in the US--Allentown, PA; Wahpeton, ND; and San Angelo, TX. A friend of ours is/was a brother in the O.Carms. (He had been talking about being sent to seminary). "The Journey to Carith" is a very good book which describes the two differences, also gives a good description of Teresa taking her regular shoes off in the church and putting on the alpargatas (sp?) which became the sign of the OCD. HTH. Blessings, Gemma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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