How Do You Tell If A Shirt Is Too Tight?

[ariaane]

[quote name='Slappo' post='1867898' date='May 15 2009, 03:44 PM']Pius IX doesn't thing standards for modesty change over time and I have a tendency to agree with him on that even though I find Pius IX's rules for modesty a little over the top.

If society starts saying that going completely in the nude is okay, does that mean standards have changed overtime and therefore we can go without clothes?[/quote]

I hope you are aware that Pope Pius IX, by the standards of his time, would probably consider your girlfriend (in your avatar) immodestly dressed?

I doubt that he would have approved of sleeves that short being worn by a woman.

Point is,[b] there is a degree [/b]of relativism and subjectivity on what constitutes modest and immodest dressing.

Just saying...

[StColette]

[quote name='ariaane' post='1867918' date='May 15 2009, 10:34 AM']No offence to your girlfriend, but although she looks like as innocent as an angel in your avatar, if she’s aroused by you having your top button on your shirt unbuttoned, then maybe sex addiction therapy would be beneficial for her too. After all, testosterone exists in both the male and female sex...[/quote]

I think you crossed the line here. He did not say that it arouses her just that she asks him to please button the top button. It could be a pet peeve of hers or maybe it just looks more professional or put together if you have the top button buttoned. AND! if it did arouse her, you have no right to suggest that she is suffering from sex addiction or that she is in need of sex addiction therapy! Different things arouse different people. Some people get aroused by feet, I don't understand it myself lol, but they do. That doesn't mean they are sex crazed and need therapy!

[Slappo]

[quote name='StColette' post='1867922' date='May 15 2009, 07:43 AM']I think you crossed the line here. He did not say that it arouses her just that she asks him to please button the top button. It could be a pet peeve of hers or maybe it just looks more professional or put together if you have the top button buttoned. AND! if it did arouse her, you have no right to suggest that she is suffering from sex addiction or that she is in need of sex addiction therapy! Different things arouse different people. So people get aroused by feet, I don't understand it myself lol, but they do. That doesn't mean they are sex crazed and need therapy![/quote]



Thanks St. Colette...

[Slappo]

[quote name='ariaane' post='1867920' date='May 15 2009, 07:39 AM']I hope you are aware that Pope Pius IX, by the standards of his time, would probably consider your girlfriend (in your avatar) immodestly dressed?

I doubt that he would have approved of sleeves that short being worn by a woman.

Point is,[b] there is a degree [/b]of relativism and subjectivity on what constitutes modest and immodest dressing.

Just saying...[/quote]

Let me add emphasis for you since apparently you missed it:

Pius IX doesn't thing standards for modesty change over time and I have a tendency to agree with him on that [b]even though I find Pius IX's rules for modesty a little over the top.[/b]

If society starts saying that going completely in the nude is okay, does that mean standards have changed overtime and therefore we can go without clothes?

[Theoketos]

[quote name='Slappo' post='1867926' date='May 15 2009, 10:54 AM']If society starts saying that going completely in the nude is okay, does that mean standards have changed overtime and therefore we can go without clothes?[/quote]

It may. Please look at pictures of the Dani people.

Modest for his culture.

[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Yali_man_Baliem_Valley_Papua.jpg[/img]

[Slappo]

[quote name='Theoketos' post='1867928' date='May 15 2009, 07:58 AM']It may. Please look at pictures of the Dani people.

Modest for his culture.

[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Yali_man_Baliem_Valley_Papua.jpg[/img][/quote]

Not modest for his culture... acceptable for his culture.

C.S Lewis thinks that this is modest and that modesty changes with culture, I disagree with Lewis on this as well as many other things (such as Christian marriage).

[ariaane]

[quote name='Slappo' post='1867926' date='May 15 2009, 04:54 PM']Let me add emphasis for you since apparently you missed it:

Pius IX doesn't thing standards for modesty change over time and I have a tendency to agree with him on that [b]even though I find Pius IX's rules for modesty a little over the top.[/b]

If society starts saying that going completely in the nude is okay, does that mean standards have changed overtime and therefore we can go without clothes?[/quote]

And what the standard of modesty is, is nothing more than subjective, as you admit that you think Pope Pius XI standards are “a little over the top”.

The reality of the matter is that Pope Pius would have said “no no” to women in pants/trousers.

He would have said “no no” to women exposing their arms as your girlfriend is doing.

He would have said “no no” to women who wore skirts and dresses that didn’t come at least, a couple of inches close to their ankles.

He possibly would have said “no no” to women wearing skirts and dresses without hose/leggings.

There is a level of relativism due to time and cultural relativism.

As for the comment about your girlfriend requiring sex therapy, it was meant to be said in good humour.

Mind you, I do think our generation is soooo sex obsessed that they nit pick over things such as this, but ignore the larger issues of human sexuality, so much so that it wouldn't hurt to speak to seek out "self help" material on how to get ones mind off things "all sexual".

[Slappo]

[quote name='ariaane' post='1867952' date='May 15 2009, 08:40 AM']And what the standard of modesty is, is nothing more than subjective, as you admit that you think Pope Pius XI standards are “a little over the top”.

The reality of the matter is that Pope Pius would have said “no no” to women in pants/trousers.

He would have said “no no” to women exposing their arms as your girlfriend is doing.

He would have said “no no” to women who wore skirts and dresses that didn’t come at least, a couple of inches close to their ankles.

He possibly would have said “no no” to women wearing skirts and dresses without hose/leggings.

There is a level of relativism due to time and cultural relativism.

As for the comment about your girlfriend requiring sex therapy, it was meant to be said in good humour.

Mind you, I do think our generation is soooo sex obsessed that they nit pick over things such as this, but ignore the larger issues of human sexuality, so much so that it wouldn't hurt to speak to seek out "self help" material on how to get ones mind off things "all sexual".[/quote]

Just because Pope Pius' standard may not have been correct does not mean that there isn't some objective standards.

If you can show me a Church document that says modest dress is relative or that there is no objective standards let me know.

I posit that even if it is culturally acceptable, things such as nudity are still not within the virtue of modesty.

Edited May 15, 2009 by Slappo