The President

[ilovechrist]

[quote name='XIX' date='Mar 26 2004, 07:27 PM'] A good rule of thumb is to vote for whoever Planned Parenthood is bashing at the current moment.

Go Bush. [/quote]
good point, XIX!!

--your avatar is awesome. STRONG BADIA.. now that would be a cool place to live!

[Iacobus]

I am not saying that life in the womb doesn't need help. It does, 4,100 abortions a day is OUTRAGEOUS. But what I am trying to stress is if we only focus on the one issue of unborn life than we are opening up the other areas of life to abuse. We as Catholics need to fight for all life not just one stage. The numbers don't matter 1 percious life = 10000000000 livies. ALL life needs help regradless of numbers. 1 person killed by the DP, one person euthinsied, one child aborted, one person straving to death. ONE PERSON TOO MANY.

[quote]Death, whether of an unborn child or of a convicted criminal, does not bring us closer to a civilization of love, but rather feeds the mistaken and dangerous notion that killing is a solution to our problems.[/quote]

Priestforlife, a site you marked, even noted that unnatural death of any kind pulls us away from God and creates even more problems.

Priestforlife recongicze that we cannot just leave the other areas but need to fight for all with all of our might. If the poor die from malnutrtion but we ban abortion, where have we gotten? All that we have done was trade one bad evil for another bad evil.

[Colleen]

Let's just pray for all of them (candidates), that they may come to know the Truth. I think that we can all agree on.

[FX2]

[quote]
the war, as it stands with 95% (Kay Report) of the sites serached, was NOT just. It takes a brave person to say that and what is America but the home of the brave???
[/quote]

And killing innocent Iraqis who are under your rule with nerve gas and then throwing them into mass graves is JUST?

Maybe invading Iraq was evil and unjust. But i believe just like this election, that invading was the lesser of two evils. On one hand you do nothing and you suspect wepons of mass destruction, and all the while a leader who wants the downfall of your country to happen keeps killing his own people. On the other hand you go to war, invade the country, and be called a coward for liberating and opressed country.

[mom25angels]

[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Mar 26 2004, 10:54 AM'] Amarkich is correct in his assesment of the death penalty. I think there may be some misunderstanding as to what the Church teaches about just war. Contrary to what lounge daddy said, the Pope could in fact openly support the war (unless you meant specifically This War and then it's up for debate). There is nothing about supporting a just war that contradicts Catholic teaching. The real question is "Was this war just". I'll not opine on that subject as it is not the topic of this thread.

As far as voting:
I served four years in the Marines (all under Clinton) and was quite happy when Bush was elected the first time. The Clinton's did tremendous harm to the military and to the country as a whole. I am still happy that Bush was elected but only because the alternative was more evil than I care to think about. In the upcoming election the alternative is even more evil, yet I don't really think Bush is all that great either. He is only marginally pro-life (and I am not talking about the war issue or capital punishment). MAny of his policies have been tailored to please the democrats (the education bill comes to mind). So I am faced witha dilema: Kerry the apostate or Bush the lukewarm? I think I will write in Buchanan. [/quote]
Ya know, I like Buchanan too, however I probably wouldn't throw my vote away. A vote outside of the rep party for an independant is really just throwing your lot in with the dem(Just my opinion there, and unfortunetly in a two party system thats just the way it works).

[IcePrincessKRS]

Mom25, thats exactly what I tried saying the last time this debate came up. I firmly stand by it, its what I was "taught" from speaking with a moral theologian priest I know. Last election year... if you'd only heard him speak about it! I certainly wish Fr. Anthony were here on phatmass!

[popestpiusx]

Fr. Anthony has a point, but it is a relative point. What we must remember is that we don't elect the president. The electoral college does and they are not bound by the popular vote (as the last election shows). We are not bound to vote for the lesser of two evils. If I live in a solid republican state (which I do) then Bush will carry the state with or without my vote.

Moreover, it is never throwing your vote away to vote for the best candidate rather than the least bad. It is a perfectly legitimate moral option. I know for a fact that Fr. Anthony would agree with that. And I too wish he was on phatmass (especially for the death penalty debate).

[ironmonk]

The rest of my comments in regard to the faithless kerry will be on the Debate board.

Be Catholic - Vote Bush,
ironmonk

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Mar 27 2004, 12:40 AM'] Fr. Anthony has a point, but it is a relative point. What we must remember is that we don't elect the president. The electoral college does and they are not bound by the popular vote (as the last election shows). We are not bound to vote for the lesser of two evils. If I live in a solid republican state (which I do) then Bush will carry the state with or without my vote.

Moreover, it is never throwing your vote away to vote for the best candidate rather than the least bad. It is a perfectly legitimate moral option. I know for a fact that Fr. Anthony would agree with that. And I too wish he was on phatmass (especially for the death penalty debate). [/quote]
For the first part of your post Fr. Anthony WOULD agree, for the latter, if the state were close running then he would disagree. He is a college chaplain and he strongly encouraged all his students, especially those in states where the running was close, to vote for Bush--he had very detailed arguments on the moral obligation to do so, I wish I could remember all his reasons.

[Good Friday]

[quote][b]Ironmonk writes:[/b]
Be Catholic - Vote Bush[/quote]
Be Catholic - Vote Methodist

Does anyone else see the [i]irony[/i] in that? Or am I the only one?

[Laudate_Dominum]

This might sound retarded, but how do you vote?

Can I just show up at the voting place and sign up, or do I have to register before hand? Thanks.

[popestpiusx]

You need to be registered, but this is done in most places (I think) when you get your drivers license. You can call them and ask them. They will at least tell you what you need to do. It may depend on the state.

Iceprincess, you state"
"For the first part of your post Fr. Anthony WOULD agree, for the latter, if the state were close running then he would disagree. He is a college chaplain and he strongly encouraged all his students, especially those in states where the running was close, to vote for Bush--he had very detailed arguments on the moral obligation to do so, I wish I could remember all his reasons."

I know Fr. Anthony if, as I suspect, we are talking about the same one.
I suspect he did not present it as absolutely morally obligatory. Encouraged, yes. Moral obligation? No way. But since I was not there I'll take your word for it. Even if he did, I can give you opinions from other
very highly respected theologians who say just the opposite, or at least defend the moral licitity of voting Buchanan (in that election).

I am not bound to tailor my vote to the whims of the mindless masses. Just because someone is more popular does not make them better. I have no obligation to supoort one candidate based on his poularity, on the notion that the better candidate has no chance. I would say that everyone has the obligation to vote for the best and if the vast majority of people fail to do this, well sorry about their luck. But their failure in no way obliges me to do anything. And don't say "Thats the way the democratic system works". I would simply say in response that that is one of the problems with the democratic system. That is why from Plato to Aquinas (and numerous others) democracy was frowned upon as the least bad of the bad forms of government. It's called the Tyranny of the Majority. I am not bound to participate or lower my standards because the majority favors a lesser candidate. I do not think that Fr. Anthony would disagree with that. I could be wrong.

[mamalove]

[quote name='Good Friday' date='Mar 27 2004, 03:07 AM'] Be Catholic - Vote Methodist

Does anyone else see the [i]irony[/i] in that? Or am I the only one? [/quote]
I think I'd rather vote for a Methodist who is pretty devout in his Christian beliefs than an immoral Catholic.

I think of Kerry when I read Psalm 50:16-23

"But to the wicked God says:
'Why do you recite my commandmants
and profess my covenant with your lips?

You hate discipline; you cast my words behind you!

When you see thieves, you befriend them;
with adulterers you throw in your lot.

You give your mouth free reign for evil;
you harness your tongue to deceit.

You sit maligning your own kin,
slandering the child of your own mother.

When you do these things should I be silent?
Or do you think that I am like you?
I accuse you, I lay the charge before you.'

'Understand this, you who forget God,
lest I attack you with no one to rescue.

Those who offer praise as a sacrifice honor me;
to the obedient I will show the salvation of God.'"

[popestpiusx]

Kerry is certainly more evil if for no other reason than he has the fullness of the faith at his disposal (a rather crass way of putting it, sorry). He should know better.

Edited March 27, 2004 by popestpiusx

[Iacobus]

My only question is how is there a lesser of two evils. Think about it. We have a choice that leads us into the area where we have to choice between two evils. Normaly we are lead into the two evils area by a poor choice beofre. We made a bad choice when we nomattied Kerry and when Bush was nommated in 2000. Both were poor choices. Neither man is truly pro-life. What I mean is Bush is pro life in one area (abortion) and Kerry is pro life in anohter (DP). But this does not occur in a vaccum. We need to adress abortion, DP, assited suicde, and war. None of the men running are willing to address all of these issues. And evil that killes young men or the sick or the DP are just as evil as some one who supports killing in war and abortion. Evil ALWAYS equals EVIL there is no such thing as a lesser evil. What we should have done was nomed a better man to run. You can't tell me there aren't any better