How Many Catholics Actually Believe Like We Do?

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1856236' date='May 3 2009, 01:09 AM']They could have serious reasons for using NFP. Or they could be practicing celibacy in mariage, like St. Louis and his wife did [/quote]

Right. 85% of a parish practicing NFP in a rich suburban neighborhood .

Sorry but the percentages don't work in that favor.

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[Resurrexi]

You never considered that they might be practicing celibacy

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1856273' date='May 3 2009, 01:34 AM']You never considered that they might be practicing celibacy [/quote]

Believe me....85% of these two kid families.....are not practicing celibacy......this is a fairly upper middle class suburban area. The parish is not "Catholic" enough for 85% to be practicing celibacy. Mass attendance is poor....confessions are offered 45 minutes every week and not many go to that. I'm sorry but that theory doesn't reflect other areas of the parish.

I could write paragraphs on the lack of Catholicism in the parish and my experience in the local parish school.

It would be hoo of me to think most of those people are being celibate.


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[Angel*Star]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1856236' date='May 3 2009, 01:09 AM']They could have serious reasons for using NFP. Or they could be practicing celibacy in mariage, like St. Louis and his wife did [/quote]
While I try not to judge other people's reasons for things, they look at me like I have four heads when I am expecting "again"! Their children get cars at 16 (and other if they wreck it), they go to Catholic high schools which are at about $10,000 a year and college is paid in full. They have all the latest and greatest. A television in their room (which they don't have to share and is in a house that my house would fit inside of), is a norm, of course they have a Wii and probably Play Station, ipod, cell phones are about as common as tennis shoes. When they vacation, it is Hawaii, a cruise and of course they fly. Again, I try not to judge, but they have all the material stuff. Then the parents ask me why my children are so well behaved. Well, I stay home with them and when we go out to eat it is a treat. My older four children all have jobs. If they want something extra, guess who pays for it.

I wish I had a nickel for every time someone said to me "I would have more kids, but...." Basically the reason comes down to financial. They have to have the latest and greatest. The moms have basically told me so. "How can you afford to send them all to college. The cell phone bill alone...." Well, guess what. My if my children want a cell phone, they pay for it. We live in an upper middle class area. The houses on "the other side of the main street" belong to doctors who work at the nearby hospital. So basically, we live on the wrong side of the tracks. But, still, we manage. It may have something to do with the car that has 250,000 miles on it which we drive. Yes, we have another one with only 70,000!

I try not to judge, I try to be charitable....Now some of the moms are telling me they wish they would have had more children. Yes, it is scary having lots of children and providing for them. It comes down. Do I believe in God or do I believe in myself?

[AdAltareDei]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1856273' date='May 3 2009, 01:34 AM']You never considered that they might be practicing celibacy [/quote]


haha, thats a little naive.
You go to the EF Mass which usually attracts serious Catholics.
Most OF Masses attract "Cultural Catholics". I'm not meaning to generalize, but surveys show that most Catholics, even those that attend Mass regularly, don't accept all the teachings of the Church.

I think nearly 45% of the people in the pews don't even believe in transubstantiation. I could find the source if I tried.

[Angel*Star]

[quote name='AdAltareDei' post='1856288' date='May 3 2009, 01:53 AM']haha, thats a little naive.
You go to the EF Mass which usually attracts serious Catholics.
Most OF Masses attract "Cultural Catholics". I'm not meaning to generalize, but surveys show that most Catholics, even those that attend Mass regularly, don't accept all the teachings of the Church.

I think nearly 45% of the people in the pews don't even believe in transubstantiation. I could find the source if I tried.[/quote]
After 12 years of Catholic schools, I did not know what transubstantiation was until after I was married! A convert made a joke about it and I just laughed because I did not want anyone to know I had never heard of it. In teaching my children religion, I am learning all kinds of things about our faith.

My daughter taught me this one: Does anyone know why St. Thomas Aquinas stopped writing? In a class of Catholic educators, my daughter was the only one (besides the priest teaching the class) who knew the answer. Does anyone else know that?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1856273' date='May 2 2009, 11:34 PM']You never considered that they might be practicing celibacy [/quote]
I think you mean to say that they are (or may be) practicing continence.

[Resurrexi]

Yes, you are correct

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='AdAltareDei' post='1856288' date='May 2 2009, 11:53 PM']I think nearly 45% of the people in the pews don't even believe in transubstantiation. I could find the source if I tried.[/quote]
Yet someone like me would not be able to join thn the Church over what in practice would be less disagreement that statements like this imply of some who are Catholic.

Edited May 3, 2009 by Light and Truth

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Angel*Star' post='1856278' date='May 3 2009, 06:44 AM']I wish I had a nickel for every time someone said to me "I would have more kids, but...." Basically the reason comes down to financial. They have to have the latest and greatest. The moms have basically told me so. "How can you afford to send them all to college.[/quote]
I know what you mean.

[mamalove]

The statistic about Catholics and artificial birth control that I have heard is about 94-96% of couples use it. I live in a very "Catholic" area and our diocese has been blessed with a high number of vocations to the priesthood. So, naturally, I thought that number was simply not accurate for where I live. Yet, when I discussed this with our local NFP teachers, they informed me that that statistic still stands, even for our very devout area. Needless to say, I was

So, yeah, I would say that is the #1 area of dissent from the faithful in the Church.

Side note: When I was pregnant with my first child (wedding night baby!), my bus driver all through my elementary school days, who was by all means a good and devout woman, told me I should have been on the pill. I was so shocked, I didn't know what to say.

[Archaeology cat]

It is unfortunate here, because many of the marriage prep workers (the ones I've met, at least) don't discuss NFP or contraceptives or anything about sexuality for fear of upsetting people. A friend of mine said when they discussed sexuality in her Catholic high school, that the teachers' only mention of NFP was "oh, you won't want to do that". This is one reason I'm working on being accredited as a Billings Ovulation Method instructor. I'm going to keep pestering people in my diocese and the neighbouring diocese until they get tired of me and give in.

[Collegepak]

[quote name='Angel*Star' post='1856290' date='May 3 2009, 01:57 AM']After 12 years of Catholic schools, I did not know what transubstantiation was until after I was married! A convert made a joke about it and I just laughed because I did not want anyone to know I had never heard of it. In teaching my children religion, I am learning all kinds of things about our faith.

My daughter taught me this one: Does anyone know why St. Thomas Aquinas stopped writing? In a class of Catholic educators, my daughter was the only one (besides the priest teaching the class) who knew the answer. Does anyone else know that?[/quote]

He stopped writing because you simply cannot write in words about all of God's magnificence and do it justice. For example, he never finished the 4th part of his Summa, and these specifically delt with the mystical aspects of divine revelation. Sure everyone knows his dialectical what we can and cannot know about God propositions, but then rarely will you find a Catholic who has read past the 3rd part in which he defaults on all objections and replies in regards to Eucharistic miracles and prophetic visions, BTW the official Church retains the right to prophesy as it is the New Covenant.

BTW, Angelstar, if you're insinuating that topics like this or for that matter any issue brought up here in the Phorums is a waste of time or droll banter, please save it because you only represent a growing degenerate character within the Church. From the way you present yourself, you were just a lukewarm cradle Catholic. The fact that you still have no intuition for how high the standards can be, says a lot about how seriously you take Divine Fulfillment (in all His creation). All I can say is, I feel sorry for your children. God obviously does, no less he has blessed your daughter with keen insight. I just hope her earthly father will continue to nurture her capabilities and not succumb to plain and simple fitting in. Watch out for that good old Hegelian bubble!

Edited May 4, 2009 by Collegepak

[Slappo]

[quote name='Collegepak' post='1857436' date='May 4 2009, 07:40 AM']He stopped writing because you simply cannot write in words about all of God's magnificence and do it justice. For example, he never finished the 4th part of his Summa, and these specifically delt with the mystical aspects of divine revelation. Sure everyone knows his dialectical what we can and cannot know about God propositions, but then rarely will you find a Catholic who has read past the 3rd part in which he defaults on all objections and replies in regards to Eucharistic miracles and prophetic visions, BTW the official Church retains the right to prophesy as it is the New Covenant.

BTW, Angelstar, if you're insinuating that topics like this or for that matter any issue brought up here in the Phorums is a waste of time or droll banter, please save it because you only represent a growing degenerate character within the Church. From the way you present yourself, you were just a lukewarm cradle Catholic. The fact that you still have no intuition for how high the standards can be, says a lot about how seriously you take Divine Fulfillment (in all His creation). All I can say is, I feel sorry for your children. God obviously does, no less he has blessed your daughter with keen insight. I just hope her earthly father will continue to nurture her capabilities and not succumb to plain and simple fitting in. Watch out for that good old Hegelian bubble! [/quote]


Umm... I'm almost 100% sure she was commenting on the lack of catechesis SHE received growing up... She has 8 children and pregnant with another, those aren't the signs of someone using contraception...

I think she was also kind of curious as to how many other people knew why Aquinas stopped writing. She obviously isn't disappointed in her children knowing things like that about the lives of the saints.

St. Thomas also received a vision of God where God told him that he had written well of God. He also wanted to destroy all of his works.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Slappo' post='1857488' date='May 4 2009, 04:45 PM']Umm... I'm almost 100% sure she was commenting on the lack of catechesis SHE received growing up... She has 8 children and pregnant with another, those aren't the signs of someone using contraception...

I think she was also kind of curious as to how many other people knew why Aquinas stopped writing. She obviously isn't disappointed in her children knowing things like that about the lives of the saints.

St. Thomas also received a vision of God where God told him that he had written well of God. He also wanted to destroy all of his works.[/quote]
Well said. I was trying to reply and messed up. But yeah, she's commented in another thread (on Catholic schools, in Open Mic), that she's trying to make sure her children do know the Faith.