Hate Them And Follow Me

[CatherineM]

[quote name='reyb' post='1854738' date='May 1 2009, 08:57 PM']Let us go back to our discussion, if this verse really means just to love God above everything or to show the seriousness of a disciple’s commitment. Why then the writer will use the word ‘hate’ instead of the above statement?

Of course, it is not proper to say ‘love our enemies’ and ‘hate our families’. But, what is the reason. Why the writer used the word ‘hate’?[/quote]

I think he used the word hate to get our attention to the seriousness of the message.

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='reyb' post='1854738' date='May 1 2009, 09:57 PM']Let us go back to our discussion, if this verse really means just to love God above everything or to show the seriousness of a disciple’s commitment. Why then the writer will use the word ‘hate’ instead of the above statement?

Of course, it is not proper to say ‘love our enemies’ and ‘hate our families’. But, what is the reason. Why the writer used the word ‘hate’?[/quote]

When you translate, your translating ideas and sometimes words do not literally translate, or when you literally translate, you lose some of the meaning because different languages have different definitions for near near equivalent words.

In short, the translator was trying to show ...as KnightofChrist, and CatherineM have explained, the seriousness of it.

Was it the best way to translate it? Maybe not. Maybe it was. Consider the passage following the passage you pointed out.

[i]27 No one who does not carry his cross and come after me can be my disciple.
28 'And indeed, which of you here, intending to build a tower, would not first sit down and work out the cost to see if he had enough to complete it?
29 Otherwise, if he laid the foundation and then found himself unable to finish the work, anyone who saw it would start making fun of him and saying,
30 "Here is someone who started to build and was unable to finish."
31 Or again, what king marching to war against another king would not first sit down and consider whether with ten thousand men he could stand up to the other who was advancing against him with twenty thousand?
32 If not, then while the other king was still a long way off, he would send envoys to sue for peace. [/i]

Luke 14:27-32

Jesus is just talking in "parable" talk to show the seriousness with which one must follow him.

If your still not satisfied with this, the next step would be to go look at the original language.

----------------
Now playing: [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/linkin+park/track/with+you"]Linkin Park - With You[/url]
via [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/"]FoxyTunes[/url]

[reyb]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1854702' date='May 1 2009, 09:15 PM']"....... [b]but the meaning of the text is, that we must be in that disposition of soul, as to be willing to renounce, and part with every thing, how near or dear soever it may be to us, that would keep us from following Christ[/b].

[url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/49014.htm"]Source[/url][/quote]

We can hear so many stories of this kind - ‘a son or a father leaves his family for his commitment to God’, although his family do not conform to such commitment - and usually it is the family who feels a little disappointed toward him. But I never heard anyone who left his family for such commitment, learn to hate his family and himself in following Christ.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='reyb' post='1854782' date='May 1 2009, 10:24 PM']We can hear so many stories of this kind - ‘a son or a father leaves his family for his commitment to God’, although his family do not conform to such commitment - and usually it is the family who feels a little disappointed toward him. But I never heard anyone who left his family for such commitment, learn to hate his family and himself in following Christ.[/quote]

So I clearly understand you hear many stories from the Bible about a son that leaves his family to be devoted to God. But you've never really seen it happen in real life?

[reyb]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1854746' date='May 1 2009, 10:00 PM']I think he used the word hate to get our attention to the seriousness of the message.[/quote]

Obviously, it is one of the reasons - to get our attention to the seriousness of the message and our attention too in order to think about it because, if there is no word 'hate' in that verse, we have nothing to discuss.

But the reason must be more than that because it has something to do with the 'cross of Christ' in the next verses.

Edited May 2, 2009 by reyb

[reyb]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1854785' date='May 1 2009, 10:27 PM']So I clearly understand you hear many stories from the Bible about a son that leaves his family to be devoted to God. But you've never really seen it happen in real life?[/quote]

I said in above post, 'I never heard anyone who hate his family and himself after he left them to do his commitment'.

Edited May 2, 2009 by reyb

[KnightofChrist]

Hate in this verse does not mean to despise your family. But to put God competently first and above everyone and everything else.

[Maria_Faustina]

Perhaps a Biblical scholar can expand on this, but what I learned in my theology class was that the word used that translates to "hate" for us actually means "love less (than)." So, unless you love your father, mother, spouse....less than Me, you cannot be My disciple." Which we should--if we do not love our parents, etc. less than God, unless we do not love Him more, there is a problem. This compares with Psalm 45, among others where the language seems to be a little extreme: "Forsake your father and your father's house..." Forsake [i][/i]out of love[i][/i]. Hate (love them less) [i][/i]out of love[i][/i], because you recognize their great importance, and that God alone is worth leaving them (physically, as opposed to spiritually) for. But yes, good question...I know I wondered for a while too!

[reyb]

Okay let us put another verses of this kind:

Matt 10:34-39

[color="#FF0000"]34 Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword. 35 For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36 And a man's enemies shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me, is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more than me, is not worthy of me. 38 And he that taketh not up his cross, and followeth me, is not worthy of me. 39 He that findeth his life, shall lose it: and he that shall lose his life for me, shall find it. 40 He that receiveth you, receiveth me: and he that receiveth me, receiveth him that sent me. [/color](Douay-Rheims Bible)
---------------------
Matt 10:34-39

[color="#FF0000"]"Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35 For I have come to 'set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law'; 36 and 'a man's enemies will be those of his own household.' 37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.[/color]
NKJV
-----------------------

[KnightofChrist]

Same thing as before put God above all others.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1855099' date='May 2 2009, 05:25 AM']Same thing as before put God above all others.[/quote]
Yep. It's hyperbole to get this point across, from what I understand.

[reyb]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1855099' date='May 2 2009, 12:25 AM']Same thing as before put God above all others.[/quote]


[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1855374' date='May 2 2009, 07:12 AM']Yep. It's hyperbole to get this point across, from what I understand.[/quote]

Is there a Christian who will say, 'I love my mother or father or wife more than I love my Lord Jesus Christ'?

[Slappo]

[quote name='reyb' post='1855385' date='May 2 2009, 03:45 AM']Is there a Christian who will say, 'I love my mother or father or wife more than I love my Lord Jesus Christ'?[/quote]

Not verbally but definitely by actions. Whenever we fail to uphold the truth in front of family members out of not wanting to cause them pain or possibly hurt our relationship with them it is putting them above the Lord.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='reyb' post='1855385' date='May 2 2009, 08:45 AM']Is there a Christian who will say, 'I love my mother or father or wife more than I love my Lord Jesus Christ'?[/quote]

During the Roman persecutions, a considerable number of Christians were more likely to sacrifice to Caesar to preserve their own lives rather than give up their life for Christ.

By the way, you can get the NIV, NKJV, RSV, NRSV, Douay-Rheims, and even The Message [url="http://www.studylight.org/"]here[/url]. And you can personalize it to automatically include the Deuterocanon when running a search.

[reyb]

[quote name='Slappo' post='1855409' date='May 2 2009, 09:27 AM']Not verbally but definitely by actions. Whenever we fail to uphold the truth in front of family members out of not wanting to cause them pain or possibly hurt our relationship with them it is putting them above the Lord.[/quote]

This is 'not too simple' reason but it is true...
But do you 'hate' them and yourself because you failed to 'uphold' the 'Truth'?

Edited May 3, 2009 by reyb