Adrestia Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 [quote name='thessalonian' post='1855605' date='May 2 2009, 02:11 PM']You don't think that those who get aids get it due to promiscuous sex and/or homosexuality? Really? You don't think that Aids is used BY GOD to bring about the repentence of those who engage in such activity? Really? You don't see throgh the eyes of faith and understanding then.[/quote] Read my earlier posts. I said that I disagree that AIDS is punishment for gays; rather, I believe that it is punishment for promiscuous sex. Being gay is different than choosing to have promiscuous sex. They are different things. Can you understand that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 [quote name='tgoldson' post='1855667' date='May 2 2009, 04:13 PM']Read my earlier posts. I said that I disagree that AIDS is punishment for gays; rather, I believe that it is punishment for promiscuous sex. Being gay is different than choosing to have promiscuous sex. They are different things. Can you understand that?[/quote] I agree that it is not punishment for those who have homosexual temptation. That's pretty obvious. And certainly it is a disease that affects both gay and heterosexals sex so if that is your point then I am okay with that. However it disproprotiantely (as a percentage) affects gay sex and so I don't think you can rule it out as a judgement on gay sex. Though I don't think we have to say it is a punishment on gay sex or hetero sex. Yes, it is a judgement on promiscuity. But I am always cautious about either or statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrestia Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 [quote name='thessalonian' post='1855696' date='May 2 2009, 03:54 PM']I agree that it is not punishment for those who have homosexual temptation. That's pretty obvious. And certainly it is a disease that affects both gay and heterosexals sex so if that is your point then I am okay with that. However it disproprotiantely (as a percentage) affects gay sex and so I don't think you can rule it out as a judgement on gay sex. Though I don't think we have to say it is a punishment on gay sex or hetero sex. Yes, it is a judgement on promiscuity. But I am always cautious about either or statements.[/quote] Ahhh. I now understand what you meant, and I agree. Thank you for expounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomProddy Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 (edited) [quote name='RandomProddy' post='1855733' date='May 2 2009, 05:59 PM']There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.[/quote] What's your point? Does this mean there is no punishment either? Read Heb 12 and see if you can stand by that. So what of those who have "fallen from grace"? Read Gal 5 if you think that can't happen. " you have fallen from grace, you have be severed from Christ." Edited May 2, 2009 by thessalonian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrestia Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 [quote name='thessalonian' post='1855755' date='May 2 2009, 05:24 PM']What's your point? Does this mean there is no punishment either? Read Heb 12 and see if you can stand by that. So what of those who have "fallen from grace"? Read Gal 5 if you think that can't happen. " you have fallen from grace, you have be severed from Christ."[/quote] I don't think that's what was meant... To paraphrase what you said earlier, those who are in Christ may [i]suffer[/i] because of the sins of others, but it is not [i]punishment[/i] or [i]condemnation[/i]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marie-Therese Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 This is a complicated question. 1. Does God still punish us? Answer: most definitely YES. We have temporal punishment attached to sin...God chastiseth every son whom He loveth. Purgatory still applies, in case you need a definitive response to that. 2. Natural disasters are not, IMHO, necessarily a punishment from God, as some of the other responders here have also said. Natural disaster is, unfortunately, a part of the working of the Earth which humans have to deal with. However, in the context of the divine, read Revelations. It states plainly that natural disasters and world conflicts will increase in frequency and severity as we head toward the End of Days. Now, don't misunderstand, I'm not one of those Chicken Little "end of the world" alarmists, but we are much closer to that time than we are aware of. Natural disasters are a sign that the Lord gave specifically to indicate this. So, are they a punishment? I don't think so. I think they serve a different purpose. And, not to mention, maybe the devastation they bring might cause some to come to a realization of the state of their life and come to change their behaviors. My thoughts, for what they're worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 [quote name='tgoldson' post='1855816' date='May 2 2009, 07:29 PM']I don't think that's what was meant... To paraphrase what you said earlier, those who are in Christ may [i]suffer[/i] because of the sins of others, but it is not [i]punishment[/i] or [i]condemnation[/i].[/quote] Those who are in Christ still sin and still suffer punishment. None of us are sinless. Therefore we are all punished in some way for every sin, i.e. we do suffer for our sins. All sin has a consequence. Salvation takes away the punishment of hell, but not temporal punishment due to sin. The poster seems to indicate that salvation removes temporal punishment. We will see if that is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 God does punish for personal sins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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