KnightofChrist Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) [img]http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/AGF/8754~Our-Lady-of-Guadalupe-with-Mexican-Flag-Posters.jpg[/img] Holy Mary of Guadalupe: You love us with special tenderness, You watch over us with maternal intercession And you always grant us your efficacious help. We implore your protection and aid To quickly overcome this epidemic That has affected our nation. Shelter us under your mantle, Deliver us from this illness. Intercede for all leaders And those who must make decisions, That they may have the wisdom to establish measures and priorities For prevention and the assistance of the entire nation And especially for those who are most vulnerable. Grant us prudence and serenity In order to act responsibly And thus avoid being infected or infecting others. Come to the aid of health care workers Watch over the recovery of the infirm And give comfort to those who are in mourning. Mother of the True God for whom we live, You who have rescued us from other plagues, Commend us to the mercy of the One who healed us by his wounds And freed us from death by his Resurrection. Teach us to unite our suffering to his In order to find its redemptive meaning And to come out of this adversity Strengthened in faith, hope and love. Amen. The Archbishop of Mexico City, Cardinal Norberto Rivera Carrera [url="http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=15806"]More...[/url] Edited April 30, 2009 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted April 30, 2009 Author Share Posted April 30, 2009 [url="http://www.lifenews.com/int1169.html"]Mexico City Sees Swine Flu Virus on Second Anniversary of OKing Abortion[/url] by Steven Ertelt LifeNews.com Editor April 28, 2009 Add to My Yahoo! Email RSS Print Mexico City, Mexico (LifeNews.com) -- The capital of Mexico is under international scrutiny after the deaths or hospitalizations of thousands of people from the swine flu virus. Ironically, the outbreak comes exactly two years after officials in the Mexico City legislature approved a law allowing legal abortions. The legislative assembly, in April 2007, approved a bill that legalized abortion within the first 14 weeks of pregnancy. While legal abortions in very limited cases such as rape and incest occur in various parts of the country, Mexico largely prohibits abortions. While residents of the massive capital city are dying from the swine flu, the Archdiocese of Mexico City’s weekly newspaper, Desde la Fe, said the deaths of people from abortion are also "disastrous." The paper cited more than 23,000 abortions that have been done since legalization and notes that at least 14 women have died from legal abortions in just two years. The newspaper's editorial warns that the “immoral, unjust and intrinsically perverse” legal abortion law is disrupting “the consciences of all those involved,” and making it so the next generation of Mexicans see killing unborn children as a normal part of society. The newspaper praised the efforts by the state legislatures of numerous Mexican states in the last few months to strengthen their own laws prohibiting abortions. Jorge Serrano Limon, the head of the anti-abortion group Provida, told the Christian Science Monitor after the Mexico City vote that he's concerned that if abortion is legalized that euthanasia will be next. "Today it's abortion; tomorrow it's euthanasia," he says. "It will be a chain that denigrates Mexican society." Raimundo Rojas, the Hispanic outreach director for National Right to Life, urges pro-life advocates to continue working to stop abortions in Mexico. "The push for a world-wide 'right to abortion' never ends because pro-abortion forces strategically chose areas where pro-life laws are vulnerable. Places where left-leaning governments are in place are their favorite targets, due to the fact that as a rule, leftist governments are anti-church and very liberal on social issues," he told LifeNews.com. "Pro-lifers in Mexico City have much work ahead of them, and they must take their fight to the streets. It is imperative for them to take this argument to the good people of Mexico City and in the strongest possible terms make them aware that abortion destroys," he added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I think we certainly should be cautious about this type of thing but it also is a bit strange that about the time that Oboma went to Mexico this stuff started breaking loose and that an archeologist who shook hands with him died the very next day of flu like symptoms. There would be no mexico city policy, had Mexico City not legalized abortion. If this is a chastisement however, considering Our Lady of Gudalupe, I think it is for the good of the US and Mexico to end abortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1852579' date='Apr 29 2009, 06:32 PM'][url="http://www.lifenews.com/int1169.html"]Mexico City Sees Swine Flu Virus on Second Anniversary of OKing Abortion[/url] by Steven Ertelt LifeNews.com Editor April 28, 2009 Add to My Yahoo! Email RSS Print Mexico City, Mexico (LifeNews.com) -- The capital of Mexico is under international scrutiny after the deaths or hospitalizations of thousands of people from the swine flu virus. Ironically, the outbreak comes exactly two years after officials in the Mexico City legislature approved a law allowing legal abortions. The legislative assembly, in April 2007, approved a bill that legalized abortion within the first 14 weeks of pregnancy. While legal abortions in very limited cases such as rape and incest occur in various parts of the country, Mexico largely prohibits abortions. While residents of the massive capital city are dying from the swine flu, the Archdiocese of Mexico City’s weekly newspaper, Desde la Fe, said the deaths of people from abortion are also "disastrous." The paper cited more than 23,000 abortions that have been done since legalization and notes that at least 14 women have died from legal abortions in just two years. The newspaper's editorial warns that the “immoral, unjust and intrinsically perverse” legal abortion law is disrupting “the consciences of all those involved,” and making it so the next generation of Mexicans see killing unborn children as a normal part of society. The newspaper praised the efforts by the state legislatures of numerous Mexican states in the last few months to strengthen their own laws prohibiting abortions. Jorge Serrano Limon, the head of the anti-abortion group Provida, told the Christian Science Monitor after the Mexico City vote that he's concerned that if abortion is legalized that euthanasia will be next. "Today it's abortion; tomorrow it's euthanasia," he says. "It will be a chain that denigrates Mexican society." Raimundo Rojas, the Hispanic outreach director for National Right to Life, urges pro-life advocates to continue working to stop abortions in Mexico. "The push for a world-wide 'right to abortion' never ends because pro-abortion forces strategically chose areas where pro-life laws are vulnerable. Places where left-leaning governments are in place are their favorite targets, due to the fact that as a rule, leftist governments are anti-church and very liberal on social issues," he told LifeNews.com. "Pro-lifers in Mexico City have much work ahead of them, and they must take their fight to the streets. It is imperative for them to take this argument to the good people of Mexico City and in the strongest possible terms make them aware that abortion destroys," he added.[/quote] I hope you get it and then we can shun you for being a filthy sinner who is being chastised by God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwannabe 777 Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1852686' date='Apr 29 2009, 10:20 PM']I hope you get it and then we can shun you for being a filthy sinner who is being chastised by God.[/quote] I think it is wrong for us to speculate if this is an act of chastisement from God and Fidei I know you are an atheist. But I hope that was a joke and even if it was intended to be a joke, that was completely out of line. Please, real people are dying here. Fidei that was completely uncalled for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 [quote name='saintwannabe 777' post='1852698' date='Apr 29 2009, 11:30 PM']I think it is wrong for us to speculate if this is an act of chastisement from God and Fidei I know you are an atheist. But I hope that was a joke and even if it was intended to be a joke, that was completely out of line. Please, real people are dying here. Fidei that was completely uncalled for.[/quote] I think he was responding to the OP's suggestion that the swine flu is a chastisement from God. Which it is obviously not. Influenza is a biological phenomenon, it does not discriminate between the holy and the unholy as Fidei correctly points out although in an uncharitable manner. Anyone and anywhere can get it and it's not "brought on" by say President Obama visiting a place. For goodness sake let's not give Christianity a bad name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Are you serious? This is just like the abortionist's family crashing into the graveyard next to the shrine to the unborn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted April 30, 2009 Author Share Posted April 30, 2009 True believers in Christ, I do not claim that this is with no doubt a Chastisement from God. I only suggest that it is a possibility. Those that do not believe God can, has, and will chastise the nations, they do not believe in the True God of Israel. "If God still loves His church, he will soon make it small and poor and persecuted just as He did to ancient Israel—so that He can keep it alive by pruning it. If He loves us, He will cut the dead wood away. And we will bleed. And the blood of the martyrs will be the seed of the Church again and a second spring will come and new buds—but not without blood. [b]It never happens without blood, without sacrifice, without suffering. Christ’s work, if it is really Christ’s work and not a comfortable counterfeit, never happens without the cross. Whatever happens without the cross may be good work, but it is not Christ’s work. For Christ’s work is bloody.[/b] Christ’s work is a blood transfusion. That is how salvation happens. " - Peter Kreeft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1852802' date='Apr 30 2009, 12:51 AM']True believers in Christ, I do not claim that this is with no doubt a Chastisement from God. I only suggest that it is a possibility. Those that do not believe God can, has, and will chastise the nations, they do not believe in the True God of Israel. "If God still loves His church, he will soon make it small and poor and persecuted just as He did to ancient Israel—so that He can keep it alive by pruning it. If He loves us, He will cut the dead wood away. And we will bleed. And the blood of the martyrs will be the seed of the Church again and a second spring will come and new buds—but not without blood. [b]It never happens without blood, without sacrifice, without suffering. Christ’s work, if it is really Christ’s work and not a comfortable counterfeit, never happens without the cross. Whatever happens without the cross may be good work, but it is not Christ’s work. For Christ’s work is bloody.[/b] Christ’s work is a blood transfusion. That is how salvation happens. " - Peter Kreeft[/quote] Peter Kreeft refers to martyrdom (both red and white). The victims of the swine flu (and other natural disasters) are not martyrs, they are NOT stand-ins for ancient Israel or the Church. I'm not saying their suffering could not be redemptive for themselves as individuals or for their culture but that is not the same thing as a chastisement. It is a cross. When God gives you a cross it is NOT a chastisement, it is not a punishment for this sin or that sin but a gift. Even the sinless Virgin had a cross. God does not make 5 year old Mexican children die to punish Mexican politicians for allowing abortion. Mutated viruses make children die. Edited April 30, 2009 by Maggie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted April 30, 2009 Author Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Maggie' post='1852825' date='Apr 30 2009, 12:13 AM']Peter Kreeft refers to martyrdom (both red and white). The victims of the swine flu (and other natural disasters) are not martyrs, they are NOT stand-ins for ancient Israel or the Church. I'm not saying their suffering could not be redemptive for themselves as individuals or for their culture but that is not the same thing as a chastisement. It is a cross. When God gives you a cross it is NOT a chastisement, it is not a punishment for this sin or that sin but a gift. Even the sinless Virgin had a cross. God does not make 5 year old Mexican children die to punish Mexican politicians for allowing abortion. Mutated viruses make children die.[/quote] It is possible that this could be a chastisement. Nothing happens that is not the will of God. God is the creator of all life, even this virus. God has, can and will chastise the nations. Time and again God would chastise the people of God, when they would do wickedly. When they would turn away from Him and offer up to idols. The blood of the holy innocents cries up to God from the ground. Because they where offered up to death largely for the modern idol worship of sex. Where the act is completely devoid of its true purpose, creation of life. The genocide of abortion can not go on forever, without nations being chastise by God. If there is a God in heaven and He hears the cries from the holy innocents He will heed their cries, if He is Just, He will judge the nations that sacrifice His children. God through out time has used famine, pestilence, decease and natural disasters to chastise who He chooses. God through out time has given the nations He chastised time and time again to repent but they did not. So they where cut down. Finally we as a nation, and others that allow the genocide of the holy innocents deserve to be cut down. Such nations are greatly immoral. If our nations do not repent for our immorality we will be chastised by God. Edited April 30, 2009 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1852802' date='Apr 29 2009, 11:51 PM']True believers in Christ, I do not claim that this is with no doubt a Chastisement from God. I only suggest that it is a possibility. Those that do not believe God can, has, and will chastise the nations, they do not believe in the True God of Israel. "If God still loves His church, he will soon make it small and poor and persecuted just as He did to ancient Israel—so that He can keep it alive by pruning it. If He loves us, He will cut the dead wood away. And we will bleed. And the blood of the martyrs will be the seed of the Church again and a second spring will come and new buds—but not without blood. [b]It never happens without blood, without sacrifice, without suffering. Christ’s work, if it is really Christ’s work and not a comfortable counterfeit, never happens without the cross. Whatever happens without the cross may be good work, but it is not Christ’s work. For Christ’s work is bloody.[/b] Christ’s work is a blood transfusion. That is how salvation happens. " - Peter Kreeft[/quote] In that speech Dr. Kreeft is speaking about martyrdom and calling on his audience to become Saints. "Can you imagain what 12 Mother Theresa's would do for this poor old world" etc. That quote has nothing to do with your God killing some kids and old people because Mexico allowed abortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotusTuusMaria Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I totally understand what of Knight of Christ is saying, and yeah... I kind of agree with him. I can see where this possibly might be us, as a world and country, suffering due to our decisions. And it is through suffering and the "crucible of sacrifice" that God sometimes chooses to save peoples and nations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted April 30, 2009 Author Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Hassan' post='1852946' date='Apr 30 2009, 01:58 AM']In that speech Dr. Kreeft is speaking about martyrdom and calling on his audience to become Saints. "Can you imagain what 12 Mother Theresa's would do for this poor old world" etc. That quote has nothing to do with your God killing some kids and old people because Mexico allowed abortion.[/quote] I will tell you how it is related. Christ's work 'never happens without blood, without sacrifice, without suffering. Christ’s work, if it is really Christ’s work and not a comfortable counterfeit, [b]never[/b] happens without the cross.' The sick can suffer, sacrifice and die just as bad as any other death. The nations can not continue the genocide of abortion and get away with it. The God of the Holy Bible, the God of the Holy Catholic Church, has many times before chastised other nations for much less. Being that you are not Christian it will likely be impossible for you to understand, that we will all die we will not live forever, no ones death is against the will of God. Every breath we take is a blessing from God. A blessing we because of our fallen nature do not deserve, yet blesses us still. Yet at anytime for whatever just reason He so chooses He can take that blessing away, and we should except it as His will. I know you reject God, and thus reject my argument. But those that do not reject God should not be so quick as to deny completely that this could be a chastisement from God, or a sign from God to repent of our wickedness and immorality. Because at very least like every death it is a sign that we will all die, our days will end. [i]Mans days are like those of grass. [/i] Edited April 30, 2009 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotusTuusMaria Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 very well written KoC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 [quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1852966' date='Apr 30 2009, 01:30 AM']very well written KoC[/quote] I don't see how I have rejected God. If he exists and wants me he knows where to find me. I mean I just moved from my last study spot but I think he could figure it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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